OO Nation: All discussion pertaining to RAW (airing February 1, 2010) should be done in this thread. It will remain pinned at the top of the
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Guidelines for TV Ratings/Discussion Threads.
Tonight on RAW: we know nothing about tonight's specific matches/segments, but we have enough information to hope for a pretty eventful
show... first and foremost, we're coming off a widely-praised Royal Rumble PPV; that not only means we're "on the road to WrestleMania," but
it means we have plenty of fall-out to deal with, including Legacy (god help us, babyface Orton is going to get turned against by heels
Rhodes/DiBiase, isn't he?), DX (Michaels eliminated Hunter, showed no remorse, and then went batshit when he, himelf, got eliminated), and of
course, our new #1 Contender For Whichever Title He Likes Edge (who should at least address the RAW audience, despite being a SD Star; teasing that he
might just take the "low hanging fruit" that is jobbertastic Sheamus, he could declare his interest in avenging his own WM loss to Taker 2 years ago,
which could put HBK on tilt, and result in a cross-brand Michaels/Edge feud over the #1 Contender spot that resolves by the next PPV and which ends
with Michaels/Taker and Edge/Jericho at WM26; and I would LOVE it)...
Also, we know Bret Hart will be on hand, making his re-return to WWE, and this time, he'll be expecting better results if he crosses paths with
Vince McMahon; should be interesting... they seemingly strengthend Miz at the PPV last night, giving him a superfluous impromptu win over MVP (he even
got cheers in the process), so maybe they're finally ready to move forward with a new direction after having the US Champ tread water for the
past month or two... we know Maryse vs. Gail Kim is the match for the vacant Diva Title, we're just waiting to find out when it happens; maybe
tonight?...
Lastly: our Guest Host is William Shatner, which could be a trainwreck (the guy is a legit addle-minded space cadet these days, sometimes unable to so
much as remember the name "Captain Kirk" in interviews) or could be awesome (the guy is a legit addle-minded space cadet these days, sometimes
delivering the most unintentionally-funny material I've ever seen, usually involving his spoken-word/poetry stuff*); trivia note: last time
Shatner was on RAW, he got involved in a Bret vs. Lawler altercation; Shatner and Bret, back again, and on the same night? Coincidence, or the
machinations of some kind of evil, time-travelling Romulan Plot? YOU make the call... also: Santino with Shatner can and should be pure-gold, while
WWE is a bunch of retards if they don't make the effort to paint the otherwise-useless Bella Twins green as they hang on Kirk's arm
tonight....
The flOOr is yours, OO Nation. Let your voice be heard and your thoughts on Brand Supremacy be known. Don't wait till after 11pm to post,
either. Pre-show previewing and prognosticating is certainly welcome. So discuss, debate, and rate!
So no doubt Raw was really good tonight, every segment was fairly decent, I love it when WWE does these types of things on RAW, Beat the clock,
qualifiers whatever have you.
Edges return on the mic was great, and so was Shemus. I like how Edge hasn't went complete babyface on us. Edge's character is still the
same, and even though he may be a face...he isn't that far from who he was before.
Cena vs Rhodes ----- bleh ..... makes the crowd happy I guess.
HHH vs Swagger....I really enjoyed this and I think these two could do more in the future together, but I did think that Swagger for the first time to
me tonight showed why he isn't on HHH's level, he was missing something in that match....at least to me some sort of ring presence, that HHH
obviously has. I still liked the match...but something is missing with Swagger...I think if he figures it out he will be on his way.
HBK and Orton was fun too great way to pin HBK so didnt' see that coming. HBK is becoming quite interesting....hes about to snap. I half
expected him to get blackmailed by Vince but it didnt' happen.
Dibiase vs Henry....was a bit anticlimatic, the finisher wasn't that believable to put down Mr. Henry, but it looks like the Dibiase push is
under way.
Big Show vs Kingston....Lame finish but I understand it...at least it was a bit creative. I like how volotile the entire roster is right now and
desperate everyone is Big Show, Orton, HBK...good stuff and is doing all the right things to sell Wrestlemania. Oh and the Miz is AWESOME.
Shatner reading of WWE music caught me off guard and cracked me up even if for a moment. It went on about a minute to long but it was funny as hell
for a second.
Shatner freeze frame, Shatner...you are the man....Don't know if you fell in ring or purpose IM leaing towards accident...but you handled it very
well if you did it on accident.
So the show was awesome to this point and IM ready to smack a very high rating on it and then the Bret vs Vince segment happened. It was just a mean
segment, very mean....and it wasn't a bad segment ...but it just seemed so I don't know depressing. Its was like someone who was scarred
reliving all the painfulness of it over and over. Kinda sadistic to me. I dont' like Batista envolved either (I know he is facing Cena) but
Batistas character doesn't seem the type to side with Vince. The segment wasn't horrible, because it DEFINITELY created heat, but I felt
bad watching Bret get spit on, I felt bad watching his offense on Vince, and it looked so disjointed when he was being physcial if only for a
second...I did like him throwing Vinces shoes at him. I love when wrestling creates emotion, and the hate seems so real.... but in this case it felt
to real. So I can't decide how I feel about the main event interview.
Raw was excellent up till that point for sure....and the interview did its job so Im going to give Raw.....
4.35 tonight
[Edited on 2-2-2010 by nobledictator]
So is it going to be Batista/Vince vs Cena/Hart at WM? That would make more sense given how limited Hart looks to be - he can't even take a flat
back bump anymore.
If JR had a son I'd swear that was him sitting in the front row opposite the camera in the red long sleeve shirt.
Rest of the show was pretty blah.
HBK is going cross-eyed - does that usually happen with age? Also he's got the Matt Hardy/RVD mullet fade haircut going now.
I couldn't care less about Orton/Rhodes/Dibiase. They've been his bitchboys too long that even when they finally do fight back it
won't matter. I expect Cody will be the referee in the Dibiase/OrtonWM match after not picking sides when Dibiase vs Orton finally
explodes!!!1!1!
Shatner was barely used. His spoken word entrance music was mildly amusing. Carl Edwards next week - blah. These guest hosts are taking away from
the storytelling.
I wasn't even feeling the Edge promo. If that was his big babyface coming out party, he was a mess.
It's a shame Raw isn't held in Canada between now and WM.
Ugh, I'd love to respond to all that, but too tired.
Liked the show, good pacing.
And I'm happy Bret went and either darkened his hair or just started using the grease again...it made him look younger. I'm glad they
didn't give away the Sharpshooter quite yet, and I'm glad they didn't bother with any shots to his head.
I was sypathetic toward Bret untill he opened his mouth and the blandness came oozing out.... I hate to say it( because I hate Orton ) but I really
wanted to see him come and kick Bret in the head. Then Batista came out and I thought ,well at least this'll be something and he just held him
for Vince.... On a side note, Swagger vs HHH , A fan ringside had a great sign "THWAGGER THUCKTH " . I was rollin'.
[Edited on 2/2/2010 by Dynamicjt]
I also thought it was a decent little show tonight. Nothing groundbreaking but it never really got boring anywhere and the pacing was close to
seamless. I'm not sure where nobledictator got a 4.35 from because it certainly wasn't outstanding, but I think 2.75 is certainly
fair.
I liked that Edge was trying to play more of a tweener role in his promo but still had the crowd eating out of the palm of his hand after the
confrontation with Sheamus. I'm mostly just glad that Edge is back.
I'm anxious to read the Smackdown tapings because I'm wondering if maybe HBK shows up on Smackdown tomorrow night to try to work his way
into the Elimination Chamber match on the SD side to get his shot at Taker. It'd be pretty cool if someone- say McIntyre- gave up his qualifying
spot to Shawn with the condition that should HBK get the title, he gets the first shot. I dunno, there's some interesting things they could do
with it and if they played it smart, they could use it for a ready made HBK vs. up-and-comer match at Backlash.
I'm not sure how I felt about Batista involving himself in the Bret-McMahon issue but it obviously sets up Cena to involve himself which probably
means we're getting Cena-McMahon after WM and I'm not sure that payoff is worth getting a last hurrah for Bret. Too late now, but I wonder
if they're going to involve the Hart Dynasty at any point or if they're just going to keep them on the backburner instead of involve them in
a potentially career making angle.
At any rate I thought it was a good but not great show that set up nicely for what should be a decent Elimination Chamber main event.
Like the Orton / HBK match. That and Kofi / Show were the only two that were entertaining because you didn't know how it was going to end.
Given the outcome last night, it makes more sense to me to have had Cody so you put him and Orton in the Elimination Chamber (unless Cody is injured
and about to get a booty-kick of doom out of Legacy in the near future, then disappear for a few months).
I didn't like the Shatner entrance musics. I did like his "songs" from the late 60s but tonight those felt off. I DID like his Raw Negotiator
bit. And, at the end, when he introduced Bret, for a moment, I thought the Canadian he was introducing was going to be Jericho. That would have been
better than the trainwreck with Bret. (And, seriously, why not have Cena come out tonight and beat on Batista to save Bret????).
Man, did Kofi miff his top rope bit. And what was Show doing being all apologetic? Made little sense to me? (For just one moment, I was wondering
if he hit the ref too hard .... )
It had a potential to be better, but it just didn't seem to deliver.
2.6
Editted to addI was also thinking the same thing about HBK going over to Smackdown on Friday for their Elimination Chamber match. Then, I
realized, an "easier" booking for WM is to have Taker drop the Belt at EC then have D-X offer Taker (and maybe Kane? Brothers of Destruction?) a Tag
Title shot.
[Edited on 2-2-2010 by wings76fan]
Yeah, I gotta agree with the sentiment of a "not too bad" kind of show. Nothing was downright awful. HHH/Swagger was decent. I think this is at
least the second time Swagger got a chance to look good against a top guy (also against Cena before IIRC). HBK/Orton wasn't too bad either, and
the finish definitely helps HBK along his way towards completely losing his mind. I'm not sure how that exactly translates to a match with Taker
at WM. I mean does HBK snap out of it once he finally gets the match? Or does he continue on a downward spiral? At the very least, this is a
different run to WM for him. Usually he just randomly decides to fight someone or go heel or whatever for a few weeks. While he kind of started out
that way again this year, the frustration/insanity angle is a little more interesting to me.
Cena/Rhodes was nothing thrilling. I like how, yet again, Cena gets the pin. For some strange reason though, I was actually feeling Cena tonight.
Maybe it was because he wasn't so over the top. He was much more scaled back in how he played to the crowd. I guess I liked that. I don't
quite know how I feel about that though.
Didn't like Kofi/Show much. Kofi stumbling around falling off ropes messed it all up for me. And I completely missed what happened with the
screwy ending so I was just lost after the match. Dibiase/Henry was also less than exciting. But at least we have our setup for Orton/Dibiase for
WM.
I liked Shatner a lot tonight. I have no idea why. I don't generally like him at all, but the dramatic readings of lyrics and the little "match
negotiator" graphic made me laugh. He apparently fully embraces the fact that he is the punchline to a lot of jokes. Good for him.
LOVED Edge tonight. Not totally over the top. Nice shades of gray in his character. It's been discussed more in the TNA threads, but I think
those tweener characters are a lot more interesting than your standard face/heel stuff. Just leaves a lot more doors open for a character when he/she
doesn't have to only fight certain people because of being a face or heel. Lol'd at the Jericho/TMZ comment too. Nice!
I really hate seeing Vince's face. I hate his silly walk. I hate his voice. So apparently he is a great character, because if he sucked I
wouldn't care about any of that. He even makes me care about Bret who, excellence of execution over a decade ago aside, is boring as fuck when
he isn't wrestling. I guess the inclusion of Batista is fine, since it'll then set up Batista/Cena for WM. Kind of kills two birds with
one stone.
Did I miss anything else with Maryse/Gail/Kelly^2? That whole interaction was a little odd. I mean not just odd like it was supposed to be, but odd
in unintended ways. Maryse trying to speak in English and not be a bitch just doesn't work. As soon as she started parle-vouzing she kicked
back into bitch mode and was way more comfortable and interesting. Any idea what the hell she said?
Can't really think of much more. The more I typed the less I liked the show. Again, not awful or anything. There was some nice progression in
stories. And I especially like that the EC match is already set rather than stringing it out until the very end. But I wasn't overly engrossed
with much of anything. I kind of paid attention most of the time but drifted off as well.
I'll go with a 2.6 just to lean slightly more towards the positive.
Were we supposed to get Maryse vs. Gail tonight????
Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
And I gotta say...people here have done some great fantasy booking re: Road to WM inclusive of WM. I've read some scenarios here that I'll
be disappointed if they don't play out. So a "well done" in general, people.
EDIT: Otherside good show. I'll give it a 3.75, with negatives coming from Shatner's limited participation and the above mentioned Maryse
non-match. But good show and way to kick off the next 2 mos.
[Edited on 2-2-2010 by williamssl]
I was disappointed they didn't end the show with Shatner going "MCMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHON!! MCMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHON!"
But yeah not to bad, if not blow away 2.9
Edge was good, but thats to be expected. I dont know if he's completely healed, so I'd expect him to have a light in ring schedule
'till Mania, just to be sure. He was on the mat alot at the rumble.
I, too, got the impression we had a Divas match, but nothing came of it. What did Maryse say?
Shatner came out late, IMO, but he was used great and I agree he must know he's the butt of a majority of jokes, but plays along. Good guy.
Better than I was expecting, him covering the theme music was funny, his match negotiator was great...but the "freeze frame guys, freeze frame" had me
rolling. Great stuff
Swagger is good, I agree he needs something...he needs an edge. Ok match though.
HBK is playing this great, im interested to see where this goes (obviously WM) but how they get there is wide open. Maybe they will swirve and
we'll get HHH vs HBK?
Some good guys went into the Chamber. Im not sure DiBiase is ready and dont know what Cody has done wrong to not be pushed aswell? Screwy BigShow
ending....I like Show, Hes great as either face or heel, but I didnt get it tonight, I guess it takes him out the Chamber match and lets Kofi move
up.
Im glad Cena stayed out of the Mcmahon/Hart Segment and I guess Batista was a good choice, but we already had a "McMahon choice Superstar vs Somebody
else choice Supestar" But I think thats whats coming..
I'll go 2.9 Decent show, better than previous and probably next week...
I'll probably watch the show tonight, but I wanted to comment on why I don't like Sheamus as THE champion. Even when Edge and Orton were at
their chicken shittiest, they at least won their matches. Whether a low blow, an outside distraction, a sneaky roll up, occassionally they won.
Now we have this so called vicious, unstoppable animal of a champion whose only wins come in a table's match where the announcers still debate
about and a squash match over the smallest regular wrestler on the Raw Roster. Every other match ended in lame DQs. I mean, not even cool "he
didn't break the count or Powerbombed the dude through the announce table"
I don't mind Sheamus. I just dislike a champion that can't seem to even get cheap wins like a midcard heel does.
Coming off the heels of very memorable/surprising RR win - the crowd was surprisingly cold for Edge?
I think that took some of the ooomph out of Edge's promo
Then Sheamus comes out and the crowd picks up a bit, but not what you'd expect.
The showdown, eventual beat down of Sheamus was good - but please DO NOT WASTE EDGE'S RUMBLE WIN ON SHEAMUS AT WM!!!!
Seriously - I'm starting to feel bad for Sheamus, he's the Champ - he gets beaten down in the first segment, and disappears for the rest of
the show?!?!
I can't remember another Champ getting less run than this guy - hasn't had a clean win as Champ yet (unless you count a match or two versus
Evan Bourne - and seriously why would your champ be battling Evan Frickin' Bourne any way)
Sheamus will lose the title at the EC PPV, get a rematch with HHH at WM - and then we will not see him anywhere near a main event again
Cena wins, HHH wins - blah blah blah
Swagger has been a general disappointment so far - he's got the tools - but why are his matches so underwhelming?
Orton/HBK was very good - HBK is about to drop off the deep end - I'm intereseted to see where this goes
Dibiase wins - let's see him with the big boys
Is Big Show turning into a Puss now that he's hanging with Miz? The old Big Show would have chokeslammed that 2nd ref as soon as the DQ was
announced - Maybe the story is that Big Show has been partnering with whiny cry babies for so long that he is going to turn into a 7'6" 500 lb
suck ass, which could be funny - I'd love to see Miz/Show come out in matching outfits one week - the Miz shirt & tie with sleeves rolled up and
a sleeveless sweater worn over top look
I like the nasty turn that MVP/Miz is starting - maybe this will lead to a cage match or ladder match at EC or even WM
Shatner was funny in a goofy this guy has lost it kind of way - the Spoken word stuff was funny but I was watching in HD, and TJ Hooker needs some
Ortho work & some teeth whitener
Freeze Frame was his funniest bit
I like next week's match that was announced that he negotiated - DX drops the belts next week to Straight Edge Society (betcha HBK no shows the
match)
Maryse/Gail/Kelly Kelly - I wished I paid more attention in French class now!!! I usually ignore the Diva stuff - but Maryse is captivating - Kelly
Kelly might be hotter, but Maryse has the right attitude & swagger along with the sex appeal - she's doing a great job as the top Diva heel right
now
Hart confronts Vince v. 2.0 - enhanced ending - I was expecting the sharp shooter and was mildly surprised that Batista made the save for Vince - I
guess we know how we're going to get Cena v. Bats now - I don't think it'll be a tag match - probably just have Bret in Cena's
corner, and Vince in Bats corner (maybe some stipulation based on the outcome for the 2 corner men like Trump/Vince had at WM a few years back) - I
really don't think Bret is physically able to compete in any meaningful way (hence why we saw the hockey fight jacket pulled over the head move
to mask the headshots)
All in all - Decent show - a couple of forgetable matches, but a couple of decents story leads - 3.1 out of 5
I was thinking Show should have chokeslammed the 2nd ref and that the final segment should have been way tighter. But then I rewatched Show's
punch in slo-mo and he drilled the ref in the forehead. I'm sure that was the finish, but he might have accidentally hit the ref and knocked him
out. Everything about the end of that segment was so weird that I wouldn't be surprised if it was legit and Show was worried he killed the guy.
Plus, that might have screwed up the pacing for the rest of the show.
Liked the qualifier matches okay, but it would have been nice if there was a modicum of suspense for any of them. But at least Swagger got to hang
with HHH.
I laughed when Lawler went into his "Rhodes is an Orton clone" immediately after Rhodes hit a moonsault press.
I hope Batista doesn't have to qualify for the EC on Smackdown. Attacking Bret doesn't make sense for his character unless Mcmahon
guaranteed him a title shot.
And I'm glad the show didn't end with Mcmahon in a sharpshooter because that would have been the end of the angle. Why would Bret show up
again if he'd already gotten revenge?
And agree about Sheamus. His title run has been weaker than Rey or Punk, who at least got real wins on PPV.
3 for the show
EDIT: Liked the Brisco video, but I'm surprised they focused more on his auto shop than the work he did backstage. I thought he helped train
people? Maybe they were worried that would remind us all of the stooges and their evening gown match.
EDIT2: Just realized I've been thinking of the wrong Briscoe.
[Edited on 2-2-2010 by theflammablemanimal]
[Edited on 2-2-2010 by theflammablemanimal]
Good opener with Edge. He did a good job of recapping the important things that occured during his absence. It was obvious that the live crowd
didn't get the memo that he is a face again. But I have to agree with what has been said previously. It had a real tweener feel to it.
Something tells me we won't be seeing Edge vs. Sheamus at Wrestlemania.
Elimination Chamber Qualifying Match: John Cena vs. Cody Rhodes- Just didn't get into this match at all. And when it ends with the weakest
finisher in wrestling history, the Attitude Adjustment, it just makes you roll your eyes.
Elimination Chamber Qualifying Match: Triple H vs. Jack Swagger- Solid match. Glad to see they let Swagger get some offense in. My favorite part was
Swagger pointing at the Wrestlemania 26 sign, with HHH on his shoulders. I feel sorry for the guy because I think he has been spinning his wheels for
the last couple of months and deserves a little better.
Elimination Chamber Qualifying Match: Randy Orton vs. Shawn Michaels- Easily the best match of the night. That roll up out of nowhere by Orton was
great! It just helps add fuel to Michael's frustration. The man looks like he is on the verge of a mental breakdown. Good stuff!
Elimination Chamber Qualifying Match: Ted Dibiase vs. Mark Henry- Well it looks like the Dibiase push is under way. Dibiase and Rhodes have been
under Orton's thumb for so long, I don't know if they will be able to pull it off. It will definitely take some work to get the crowd on
his side.
Liked the little backstage interaction between Gail Kim, Kelly Kelly and Maryse. Not that my French is very good, but I think she said something to
the effect that she is going to be the champion.
The backstage segment in Shatner's office was excellent. By making it a triple threat for the unified tag titles, they've added a little
more spice to the match. How bad can it be when you have Punk and Miz in the ring at the same time?
Elimination Chamber Qualifying Match: Kofi Kingston vs. Big Show- Shitty match with an even worse finish. Kofi really fucked up off that top rope.
Confusing reaction by the Big Show, especially going up the ramp.
The Bret Hart/Vince McMahon confrontation- I really thought Bret was a lot better on the mic this time around than his last appearance. Don't
really mind Batista getting involved. Again it opens the door for Cena to play superhero again and bring justice to those who deserve it. Real
cheesy stuff, but that's what we've come to expect from him these last 7 years.
Solid Show overall and a good hosting job by Shatner: 3.0
quote:
Originally posted by Frank Lloyd Wright
And when it ends with the weakest finisher in wrestling history, the Attitude Adjustment, it just makes you roll your eyes.
Actually an entertaining show. Shatner was awesome, and was only missing a Star Trek reference, but I guess maybe he's still pissed about being
left out of the reboot.
Matches were entertaining enough. The stuff with Michaels, while a bit overdramatic is interesting.
The ending with McMahon and Bret was shooterific enough to keep my attention, and was almost there, until Batista? Really? And I kept waiting for
the Bret-Defensive wrestler pyro/music to go off, and it never did. I know everyone is saying it'll be Cena, and based on the promo he cut on
McMahon a few weeks ago, but I'm kind of hoping it's HBK, just because he's all 'lost his smile' and stuff. He can take on
McMahon/Batista to make amends for the Screw Job.
3.5
quote:
Originally posted by theflammablemanimal
I'm not sure how that's weaker than Dibiase winning with a freaking jumping armbar. Is that the first time it's ever won a match for anyone?
I nearly forgot that I did see the Diva's backstage segment, the ending to Show/Kofi and the main event segment.
With the Divas, man I feel gay/racist for seeming to be the only guy here that is completely apathetic towards Maryse. It's like she's
pretty in that "she's on t.v. so she looks better than the girl in the next cubicle" but she does nothing for me the way
Velvet/Madison/Gail/Victoria/Alissa/Alicia/Beth/etc. And am I tripping or were Maryse and Kelly Kelly orange last night?
I have no problem with Show's reaction because he hasn't been a monster since teaming up with Jericho. Hell, would a monster ask Santa
Clause for his tag team partner back? Or hang out with the Miz? Or wear those spiffy suits when he was tag champ? I think, as someone mentioned,
it's rubbed off on him and it could even been seen as him realizing he lost his chance at the title at least for the next two PPVs on an
accident.
Main event promo was okay. I thought Bret handled himself well and can't quite seem to understand why anyone thought he was boring. The
Batista thing was a shock, especially because I thought for half a second it was Orton standing there. Has Batista lost some mass? I would have died
laughing if Shatner had tried to jump on Batista's back.
I actually liked the finish of Kofi/Show because until he hit the ref I thought the eye poke was real. And I was glad he didn't destroy the next
ref and the trainers and throw the stretcher into a dumpster - either he'll rip off Snitsky's entrance now or it might even be the start of
a face turn. Miz can start getting on him about being soft and always losing without Miz around.
Shatner was great but way too short. But I'm a SHAT! mark so I expected true
awe-fullness with him embracing the awe-fullness and laughing at it. Like the negotiator segment where he smiles and is saying "freeze frame" and the
other guys just walk out shaking their heads.
quote:
He was cool, then he was nerd-cool, then he was kitsch, then he was kitsch-cool, then he was knowing-wink cool, then just plain cool again, and now he's something better than cool. He made himself a punchline with such debonair cunning that -- guess what? -- the man is not a punchline anymore.
quote:
Originally posted by Stu
I was disappointed they didn't end the show with Shatner going "MCMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHON!! MCMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHON!"
quote:
Originally posted by OORick
I'd have settled for him doing a double-take during the "RAW Match Negotiator" skit, and then off-hand saying "Hey, what's up, V'ger?" to Serena.
Not a bad show. Still, a bit disappointed they aren't working the Dynasty into the Bret/Vince story. But Batista sort of works, and it at least
gets the Batista/Cena feud into something entertaining and meaningful.
Anyone else think it's weird doing Chamber-qualification matches the day after the Rumble? You either last 20+ gruelling minutes in the rumble
to get a title shot.... or you wait a day later, win one match against Mark Henry, and you get a title match. For me it dampens the importance of the
Rumble.
I'm looking forward to who they end up dumping in the MitB match at WM. Big Show would be a unique in a freaky kinda way, and a strong showing
from Swagger in that kinda match would do wonders for his image.
quote:
Originally posted by deshorta
Anyone else think it's weird doing Chamber-qualification matches the day after the Rumble? You either last 20+ gruelling minutes in the rumble to get a title shot.... or you wait a day later, win one match against Mark Henry, and you get a title match. For me it dampens the importance of the Rumble.
Appreciate that, but if they win the Chamber they're 90% to be headlining WM anyhow.
I do know I'm showing slight irrationality, but it's just one of those little logic things that slightly bugs me about bookings.
I'm coming in kind of late here, and a lot of my own opinions have already been echoed, so I'll just say I liked last night's show and
give it a 3.1.
One thing I did want to touch on is the Michaels situation. I think the WWE has done a great job with it so far and there's any number of ways
they could go to set up Taker/Michaels II. While watching last night, I came up with a little fantasy booking for what they could do: First, have Edge
announce he is going to challenge the Undertaker at WrestleMania (which of course further infuriates Micheals). Then have Michaels somehow work his
way into the Smackdown EC match. At the PPV have it come down to Michaels, Jericho, and Taker. Michaels surprisingly teams up with Jericho to
eliminate Taker, leaving them as the last two wrestlers. Instead of fighting Jericho, Michaels walks out on the match, getting himself counted out and
thus awarding Jericho the world title. Now you have Jericho as champion, and Edge forced to wrestle him instead of Taker by default, and Michaels
showing that he's so obsessed with wrestling the Undertaker that he passed up a chance to win the world title in order to try and make the match
happen.
quote:
Originally posted by blackdragon
With the Divas, man I feel gay/racist for seeming to be the only guy here that is completely apathetic towards Maryse. It's like she's pretty in that "she's on t.v. so she looks better than the girl in the next cubicle" but she does nothing for me the way Velvet/Madison/Gail/Victoria/Alissa/Alicia/Beth/etc.
I liked how Cole and Lawler wouldn't stop saying, "winning in the Elimination Chamber is the LAST chance any of these guys have in headlining
Wrestlemania!" You know, except for the fact that the champion will also need a challenger. It wouldn't have seemed so dumb if they'd
just said it once and forgotten about it, instead of repeating it all night.
[Edited on 2-2-2010 by punkerhardcore]
quote:
Originally posted by deshorta
Anyone else think it's weird doing Chamber-qualification matches the day after the Rumble? You either last 20+ gruelling minutes in the rumble to get a title shot.... or you wait a day later, win one match against Mark Henry, and you get a title match. For me it dampens the importance of the Rumble.
quote:
Originally posted by punkerhardcore
I liked how Cole and Lawler wouldn't stop saying, "winning in the Elimination Chamber is the LAST chance any of these guys have in headlining Wrestlemania!" You know, except for the fact that the champion will also need a challenger. It wouldn't have seemed so dumb if they'd just said it once and forgotten about it, instead of repeating it all night.
quote:
Originally posted by LuckyLopez
I don't really know what Dibiase has done to differentiate him from Rhodes but I haven't seen it.
quote:
Originally posted by gobbledygooker
How about the fact that he doesn't have the look and physique of a six-year-old trying on his dad's wrestling clothes?
quote:
Originally posted by FistHiccups
I agree in principle, but title shots in wrestling are so arbitrary that you have to just abandon thought when it comes to them.
Here's the difference between the Rumble and getting a title shot at the Elimination Chamber. Winning the Rumble gets you a main event title shot
at WRESTLEMANIA. It's bigger than a title shot at the Elimination Chamber, and technichally, Edge has 2 months to prepare for 1 match and now
everyone else has to prepare for the Chamber and then prepare for Wrestlemania. It's a HUGE advantage to know you have a title shot 2 months in
advance.
ETA: The show was boring as fuck, but at least it wasn't offensively bad. 1.75.
[Edited on 2-2-2010 by DevilSoprano]
The other huge factor differentiating winning the Rumble and being in the EC is that the Rumble winner not only gets the prestige of main eventing
Wrestlemania, but they (generally) get a one-on-one shot at the title. That's much better than the 1-in-6 odds in the EC, especially if
you're the unlucky one who draws one of the first two EC slots. With both the prestige and odds advantage, it's clear that winning the
Rumble is the better option.
[Edited on 2-3-2010 by atothej]
Also I would venture to guess that in the real world, the payday for main eventing the biggest PPV of the year is significantly larger than being one of 12 people in the 2 EC matches (or more if ECW does one), and that alone is reason enough to be happy with winning the Rumble and getting the WM title shot.
quote:
Originally posted by gobbledygooker re: Dibiase vs. Rhodes
How about the fact that he [Dibiase] doesn't have the look and physique of a six-year-old trying on his dad's wrestling clothes [Rhodes]?
quote:
Originally posted by blackdragon
With the Divas, man I feel gay/racist for seeming to be the only guy here that is completely apathetic towards Maryse. It's like she's pretty in that "she's on t.v. so she looks better than the girl in the next cubicle" but she does nothing for me the way Velvet/Madison/Gail/Victoria/Alissa/Alicia/Beth/etc.
Yes, but if you win the EC, then you're going to WM. The RR win is still much bigger but it does seem to take away the significance of the
loss.
8 years ago or so, it used to be that if you lost the Rumble, you were not getting a title shot and you were not headlining WM. Now, you can still win
the EC or just win whatever tourney they have the next month to crown the #1 contender for the belt Edge isn't going for.
So while winning the Rumble is still great, losing it isn't as significant as it was.
8 years ago, there was only one title, so that also renders your point moot.
Listen: 1-6 odds to win the EC is a lot worse a chance than getting the one on one match. Obviously, entry in the Rumble is worse odds, but the prize
for the Rumble is still a guaranteed headlining shot at Wrestlemania. Getting into the EC gives you worse odds at winning the title (1 in 6) than
facing the champ at WM (1:1 or 2:1 in triple threat situations). So, while initial odds of winning the Rumble are better, the payoff is that you get
a much greater chance of eventually winning the title than if you are one of the challengers in the EC.
I don't know how to clear this up any further; and I don't see how having the EC matches takes the luster off the Rumble win. The Rumble
prize is getting to be in the main match at the biggest PPV with a very good chance to win the title; the EC is a one in six chance to possibly win
the title and then go on to headline.
quote:
Originally posted by atothej
8 years ago, there was only one title, so that also renders your point moot.
Listen: 1-6 odds to win the EC is a lot worse a chance than getting the one on one match. Obviously, entry in the Rumble is worse odds, but the prize for the Rumble is still a guaranteed headlining shot at Wrestlemania. Getting into the EC gives you worse odds at winning the title (1 in 6) than facing the champ at WM (1:1 or 2:1 in triple threat situations). So, while initial odds of winning the Rumble are better, the payoff is that you get a much greater chance of eventually winning the title than if you are one of the challengers in the EC.
I don't know how to clear this up any further; and I don't see how having the EC matches takes the luster off the Rumble win. The Rumble prize is getting to be in the main match at the biggest PPV with a very good chance to win the title; the EC is a one in six chance to possibly win the title and then go on to headline.
Look, the Rumble is still awesome and WM is still the show and EC is 1-6 odds. Understood.
But I still think the EC takes away a little of the Rumble's luster and that can be illustrated by the HBK/Taker angle.
3 years ago, before they introduced the EC PPV, there was no way that HHH could show up on RAW the next night and tell HBK, "Hey, no big deal that you
lost. Win tonight and you can still be at WM." They sold the Rumble as HBK's only shot, then made a big deal about how his loss eliminated any
chance to face Taker, but Friday night he (hopefully) gets another shot. And if that happens, his Rumble loss is no longer a big deal.
No, it's still a big deal. Why? Because he has to win a qualifier, then beat 5 other guys in the match. And that's assuming that he gets
a shot to qualify for SD's EC. Moreover, he didn't really care about being in the Raw EC match, because it wouldn't get him his final
goal: facing the Undertaker, one on one, at Wrestlemania. Winning the Rumble gives him exactly what he wants, possibly getting in the EC does not.
Getting in the Raw EC doesn't get him what he wants at all.
Put succinctly: winning the Rumble would get Shawn what he wants (assuming Taker retained until WM), the other paths are much longer shots.
[Edited on 2-3-2010 by atothej]
Not that it matters now, but Maryse Said:
�Just want to let you know that, at the end, I will win the championship.�
Apparently...
quote:
Originally posted by kiez
Not that it matters now, but Maryse Said:
�Just want to let you know that, at the end, I will win the championship.�
Apparently...
Really? Because I just assumed she was being disingenuous without having any idea what she was saying in French (and not caring to look it up,
because sure enough it wasn't at all interesting or witty).
Is 90% of the audience really too stupid to get "the heel is full of it"?
When was the last time the Rumble winner guaranteed went to WM without any controversy or having to face someone for the title shot? I guess Undertaker did, but usually there's a #1 contendership match at No Way Out anyways. Hell, 2008 had TWO matches for #1 contendership. So I'm not buying the 'EC kills the Rumble concept dead' because the idea of there being a PPV between Rumble and WM and knowing the Rumble winner can lose his shot (HHH did in 2002 but won the rematch on RAW) also diluted the point a bit.
Originally posted by DrBoz
quote:
I totally don't understand this at all. Stats on wwe.com indicate Rhodes is 6'1" 223 while Dibiase is 6'3" 235. Look at pictures of them together and they really don't look that much different. The only reason Rhodes looks weird is because he doesn't wear knee pads (which I've been annoyed with since he debuted). Makes him look like a knock knee'd bimbo.
quote:
Originally posted by DrBoz
I totally don't understand this at all. Stats on wwe.com indicate Rhodes is 6'1" 223 while Dibiase is 6'3" 235. Look at pictures of them together and they really don't look that much different.
WWE.come would never lie! Looking at them side by side in the ring, Cody Rhodes always looks way smaller and weaker. I wouldn't call him girly, cuz he is ripped, but he's still a tiny dude (for a wrestler).
The only time he looks big is when he wrestles Bourne.
Psycho Penguin - 2-3-2010 at 09:42 PMHe just needs to get more tan really.
gobbledygooker - 2-3-2010 at 09:45 PMThanks for providing me with my new wallpaper!
LuckyLopez - 2-3-2010 at 09:52 PMDid you know that if you do a google image search for "cody rhodes ted dibiase" in hopes of finding a shot of them standing side by side to illustrate your point you end up getting photoshopped Legacy gay porn? I wish I was kidding.
I think Dibiase has broader shoulders and a generally more muscular build. He just looks stronger and stockier, where Rhodes is a more cut guy who gets a little scrawny in some places. I don't think Dibiase is really much bigger but he probably just works a different gym routine that gives him a different sort of build. Being relatively the same height and weight doesn't mean you have the same physique. You can build different muscles, have different percentages of body fat, etc. And whatever it is that Dibiase and Rhodes do I think the result is Dibiase looks a little bigger and Rhodes tends to look a little scrawny.
But its not so big a difference that it sets them apart for me. And I'm a guy who doesn't care that Samoa Joe is fat, that AJ Styles is undersized, or whatever so I'm no more likely to prefer Dibiase for looking "bigger" than I am to pencil in Chris Masters for a main event push solely because of an impressive physique.
Waldorf - 2-3-2010 at 10:56 PMquote:
Originally posted by the goon
One thing I did want to touch on is the Michaels situation. I think the WWE has done a great job with it so far and there's any number of ways they could go to set up Taker/Michaels II. While watching last night, I came up with a little fantasy booking for what they could do: First, have Edge announce he is going to challenge the Undertaker at WrestleMania (which of course further infuriates Micheals). Then have Michaels somehow work his way into the Smackdown EC match. At the PPV have it come down to Michaels, Jericho, and Taker. Michaels surprisingly teams up with Jericho to eliminate Taker, leaving them as the last two wrestlers. Instead of fighting Jericho, Michaels walks out on the match, getting himself counted out and thus awarding Jericho the world title. Now you have Jericho as champion, and Edge forced to wrestle him instead of Taker by default, and Michaels showing that he's so obsessed with wrestling the Undertaker that he passed up a chance to win the world title in order to try and make the match happen.
I was thinking the same thing except, you know, it really doesn't require Edge to announce his plan beforehand. If anything, waiting until afterward lets him decide to go for the World title because Jericho has it.
Paddlefoot - 2-4-2010 at 03:45 AMquote:
Originally posted by Psycho Penguin
He just needs to get more tan really.
Oiled up twinkies are always good for a smile !
DrBoz - 2-4-2010 at 03:53 AMBest video EVAR!
Orton makes both Rhodes and Dibiase look small. Dude has some impressively large quads.
Gobshite - 2-5-2010 at 03:18 PMquote:
Originally posted by punkerhardcore
I liked how Cole and Lawler wouldn't stop saying, "winning in the Elimination Chamber is the LAST chance any of these guys have in headlining Wrestlemania!" You know, except for the fact that the champion will also need a challenger. It wouldn't have seemed so dumb if they'd just said it once and forgotten about it, instead of repeating it all night.
[Edited on 2-2-2010 by punkerhardcore]
Sorry if this has been corrected before - Cole and Lawler get a lot of much deserved flack, but in this case, they were exactly right. Edge is already 1/2 of the headline match. The only way they can HEADLINE Wrestlemania is win the title, and hope that Edge picks their title as his match.
The other title match (lets just be crazy and assume it might be HHH/HBK), will probably be a mid card match, at least an hour away from the final two-three matches (assuming HBK/Taker, Edge / ?, and Vince/Bret go on after that).
Remember HHH/Booker T? Was THAT a headline match? Even a 'main event' attraction?
I enjoyed the show. Not sure why Batista was there, IN WRESTLING GEAR, but I assume it's because McMahon had a plan all along, which I'm fine with - it fits Bat's character perfectly to play ball with the guy who has all the power when it comes to giving him what he wants: title shots.
Punk/Gallows winning the tag title titles and hopping will be awesome. I'm guessing it won't happen until after EC or maybe WM, and the tag titles will be forgotten for a while (then not long after WM, assuming he stays face, Gallows/Punk vs Edge/Christian would be awesome).
If both members of DX get what they want eventually, will they just carry on as best buddies, or will this be the start of HHH returning to his 'Game' heel side?
[Edited on 2-5-2010 by Gobshite]
theflammablemanimal - 2-5-2010 at 05:51 PMquote:
Originally posted by Gobshite
Cole and Lawler get a lot of much deserved flack, but in this case, they were exactly right. Edge is already 1/2 of the headline match. The only way they can HEADLINE Wrestlemania is win the title, and hope that Edge picks their title as his match.
You only have to go back to WM23 to prove this wrong. Taker won the Rumble that year and his title match was not the headline match (that was Cena/HBK).
By the way, in going to Wikipedia to doublecheck, I found this gem that ensures I will never read anything by Wade Keller. In reference to the HHH/Orton match at WM 25:
"it just wasn't able to follow the classic two matches earlier."
HHH/Orton have 2 "classic" matches?
atothej - 2-5-2010 at 07:41 PMquote:
Originally posted by theflammablemanimal
By the way, in going to Wikipedia to doublecheck, I found this gem that ensures I will never read anything by Wade Keller. In reference to the HHH/Orton match at WM 25:
"it just wasn't able to follow the classic two matches earlier."
HHH/Orton have 2 "classic" matches?
Man, I don't want to seem like I'm trolling you, but you really should've looked a bit harder at that Wikipedia entry. The final three matches of WMXXV were Taker v. HBK, Cena v. Show v. Edge, and HHH v. Orton; therefore, Keller was clearly referring to Taker v. HBK as a classic, and that was the one coming "two matches earlier."
theflammablemanimal - 2-7-2010 at 07:56 AMThat makes a lot more sense. Thanks, you goddamned troll!