OOMike
Man of a Thousand Holds 
Posts 1736
Registered 1-3-2002 Location Columbus, OH Member Is Offline Mood: busy
|
| posted on 9-13-2011 at 02:29 PM |
|
|
Has political extremism become a religion?
After witnessing (and participating) a few discussions in person and on Facebook, I am starting to wonder if it has become impossible for these people
to ever change their thinking. I equate it to religion, in that, (I don't remember the source or exact quote) someone stated that if you
believe in God, no amount of "proof" will end your belief, and if you do not believe in God no amount of "proof" will make you believe. The
trigger for this epiphany for me was trying to get a neo-con to accept the fact that there is hypocrisy by both sides of the political spectrum and he
refused to even acknowledge that the right does anything hypocritical. (Well his argument was, if anyone does, they are quickly and severely
punished).
So with the very vocal minority in both parties acting this way, is this the end of the political system we have had in this country for over 200
years? Are we now doomed to have to deal with finger pointing and extreme deadlines to get anything done in government? (unless a party has a super
majority)
The movie "Idiocracy" was really a documentary.
Never let the facts interfere with a good rant.
The only OO columnist that has never written a column.
|
|
|
BBMN
HAVES A CROOKED DICK!! !
Posts 1370
Registered 6-27-2007 Location 1984 Member Is Offline Mood: Prayer Fight
|
| posted on 9-13-2011 at 06:13 PM |
|
|
Yes, in a short-lived cult type of way.
|
|
|
C.MontgomeryPunk
Man of a Thousand Holds 
Posts 1698
Registered 1-6-2010 Member Is Offline Mood: ButtViper-y
|
| posted on 9-14-2011 at 10:57 PM |
|
|
It's because of the media. They love this shit. Only time you get on tv is if your saying dumb shit. Alan Grayson was all over the
television, Michele Bachmann was all over even before her run.
A Dem can only get on television if they are attacking the Obama Administration - because that's the drama the MSM is looking for.
Was it to this level before Palin? Folks want to say crazy red meat shit to get noticed and thus get rich?
Another cause is partisan redistricting. Both sides do it - they gerrymander to create safe seats - and safe seats don't need to worry about
the general election but do need to worry about getting primaried. So safe seats always has to cater to the primary voter, which is usually more to
the fringe - if they compromise they'll get primaried. Look at what happened to Mike Castle in Delaware - beat by Christine O'Donnell
because he was deemed too moderate. Lisa Murkowski beat out in a primary by Jim Miller (she of course won a write-in campaign to be re-elected).
I remember Eddie Guerrero.
|
|
|
outback jack
The Great One 
Posts 3807
Registered 3-10-2003 Location not Australia Member Is Offline Mood: old
|
| posted on 9-14-2011 at 11:50 PM |
|
|
I think Huntsman has some decent ideas, but because he's not a reality show freak he is getting almost no media coverage, even though he is a
potentially electable moderate Republican.
|
|
|
C.MontgomeryPunk
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1698
Registered 1-6-2010 Member Is Offline Mood: ButtViper-y
|
| posted on 9-15-2011 at 03:02 AM |
|
|
^President Obama being so weak in polling means the GOP can take electability off the table. Perry polls equally as strong as Romney against Pres
Obama. I think Huntsman blew it running this election - He would have been a contender in in 2016. dems will have shit candidates, Huntsman would
have appealed as he was a moderate Republican who worked in the Obama Administration.
Of course that wouldn't win him either primary - it would have made for an interesting independent run though.
I remember Eddie Guerrero.
|
|
|
OOMike
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1736
Registered 1-3-2002 Location Columbus, OH Member Is Offline Mood: busy
|
| posted on 9-15-2011 at 12:40 PM |
|
|
I wasn't talking about the polititians, I was referring to the people who support them. These very vocal minorities that are the force in the
primaries (which brings us to a chicken-egg argument in that are the canidates leading the people to the extremes or following them?) refuse any sort
of budging by the leaders of the party. Compromise is dead because so many people will yell and scream that so and so is a sell out, traitor,
RINO/DINO, etc. The far right loves to quote the founding fathers ideals, but one of the biggest ones is the compromise that is the US Constitution.
Why do we have 2 seperate parts of congress? Why were blacks 3/5ths of whites? Why is it so hard to amend the Constitution? All these were
compromises by both sides for the betterment of the country. It seems like we can't so that anymore.
To me THAT is the biggest problem with politics.
The movie "Idiocracy" was really a documentary.
Never let the facts interfere with a good rant.
The only OO columnist that has never written a column.
|
|
|
C.MontgomeryPunk
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1698
Registered 1-6-2010 Member Is Offline Mood: ButtViper-y
|
| posted on 9-15-2011 at 03:33 PM |
|
|
It's Fox News and ALEC and their like - they want political gridlock, as it allows business to run wild and have all the control. Businesses
are sitting on a near 2T in capital, not looking to spend it because of the political benefits of a bad economy. Businesses ship jobs overseas
without a second thought - America is competing with third world labor now, it's a race to the bottom. Corporations are not American, they
don't give a shit about America.
The MSM which is dying, sees Fox as growing and making money and says "Hey, we could do that too". I mean look at CNN - they've become the
station of the Tea Party, hosting the teaparty debate most recently, but also allowing Bachmann to give two teaparty rebuttals to Presidential
speeches.
I don't believe America has a legit news media anymore. It's all about entertainment and marketing - appealing to a niche market, telling
them what they want to hear to sell advertising. Of course Fox and the like will say we're just giving the market what they want. Riight.
Ailes was deep in the Nixon administration and dreamed of a propaganda network. We see what Murdoch does in UK to get ultimate power, he does the
same in Australia. Murdoch and the Saudi Prince don't care about Fox as long as it's making money, Ailes loves it as his propaganda tool.
But it does make money, so other networks and cable channels try to copy it. Straight news doesn't sell nearly as well as the high drama
hair-on-fire reporting of the infotainment news we're being peddled now.
Facts don't matter. People chose their own facts, and any that go against their belief is written off as biased or false, or the source
discredited as of the other political viewpoint.
[Edited on 9-15-2011 by C.MontgomeryPunk]
I remember Eddie Guerrero.
|
|
|
OOMike
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1736
Registered 1-3-2002 Location Columbus, OH Member Is Offline Mood: busy
|
| posted on 9-15-2011 at 04:06 PM |
|
|
^^^^ agreed....
But I feel (hope, pray) that it is pandering to the minority. Can we get to the point where we can have an intelligent, non-insulting conversation in
our political world?
As for the MSM argument, I am getting tired of hearing how the MSM is too liberal, Fox News is the leading news organization in the US, doesn't
that make them MSM?
The movie "Idiocracy" was really a documentary.
Never let the facts interfere with a good rant.
The only OO columnist that has never written a column.
|
|
|
Qonas
Showstopper 
Posts 996
Registered 8-7-2002 Location Detroit, MI Member Is Offline Mood: Ragin'
|
| posted on 9-15-2011 at 04:39 PM |
|
|
No, it does not. They have what, Fox News and Fox Business? When they get far more than just two networks, when they get more than just Fox as a
"network" network, when they branch into newspapers (NYT, Washington Post), when multiple magnates aside from just Rupert are involved (Huffington),
when people who aren't brain-dead rednecks start paying attention to Fox News and consider its word gospel the way people do for CNN/MSNBC/those
two shows on Comedy Central, then yes, it can be considered MSM.
Also, being virulently anti-business is just as radical and extremist as being far left/right. "Compromise" includes business too as
they.....y'know.....supply our jobs and are very literally the nervous system of our economy.
[Edited on 9-15-2011 by Qonas]
|
|
|
denverpunk
Showstopper 
Posts 968
Registered 6-27-2007 Location Mile-Hi Member Is Offline Mood: Stoked
|
| posted on 9-15-2011 at 10:16 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Qonas
Also, being virulently anti-business is just as radical and extremist as being far left/right. "Compromise" includes business too as
they.....y'know.....supply our jobs and are very literally the nervous system of our economy.
[Edited on 9-15-2011 by Qonas]
But that's just it; they really aren't supplying that many jobs in our country anymore. In fact, many of them are supplying jobs to India
and Mexico rather than our country. Businesses are in it to make money, especially for the people up top. Employees get thrown away after years of
hard work so the bottom line can go up, while many CEOs are raiding pension funds to line their own pockets.
I know these are extreme examples, but it's hard for me to trust businesses when they don't have their employee's interests at
heart.
|
|
|
Cherokee Jack
Fella 
Posts 325
Registered 2-24-2009 Location New Orleans, LA Member Is Offline Mood:
|
| posted on 9-15-2011 at 10:37 PM |
|
|
Exactly...the "we can't ever ever EVER raise taxes on wealthy people for any reason...EVER." crowd constantly refers to millionaires and
billionaires not as the "rich" or "wealthy," but the new codeword is "job creators." We need to cut taxes endlessly for them because
they're the ones who create jobs. Because that's worked so well the last few years. If these people are supposed to be worshiped as the
"job creators," they need to create some fucking jobs.
And yes, when Fox has more people watching them for news than any other channel, they are the mainstream, at least as far as TV news goes. Yeah, they
don't have a newspaper, but what does that mean? I'd probably be willing to be that more people watch Fox every day than read the New
York Times. And furthermore, the whole "liberal media" thing is an idea professed by people who really think Fox is "fair and balanced." Of
course if you consider Fox to be the center, almost anything else is going to be liberal by comparison.
And to get back to the original topic, I unfortunately think we're only going to consider moving in the direction we've been moving the
last 5-10 years. Nothing substantial will get done unless either A) one party has complete control of the government (meaning, the White House, a
majority of the House, and a unified supermajority in the Senate), or B) a viable third party emerges. And I seriously doubt B is happening anytime
soon.
I'm Cherokee Jack!
2010 OO Fantasy Football Champion!
|
|
|
C.MontgomeryPunk
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1698
Registered 1-6-2010 Member Is Offline Mood: ButtViper-y
|
| posted on 9-16-2011 at 01:12 AM |
|
|
Rupert Murdoch owns the Wall Street Journal.
Tax rates are the lowest they've been in 50 years - so shouldn't the economy be the best its been in 50 years if there is a direct
connection to low taxes and a better economy?
Bush tax cuts, two wars and a Medicare Part D plan were all passed and with no off-setting spending cuts by the Bush White House and many of the very
same Republicans in office today. They purposely made this crisis in order to try to force cuts to medicare and social security now. They knew that
they couldn't make the cuts at the same time they were cutting taxes, but they could cause the debt/deficit crisis and go about cutting them
now.
And how it it a tax raise when the Bush Tax Cuts were written to expire? Congress does nothing and they expire how is that a tax raise - that just
means the tax holiday is over.
And there is so many damn write-offs and loopholes that GE pays no taxes? That Warren Buffet pays 17% in taxes? That hedge fund whizkid who make
billion a year creating nothing don't have to pay on those earnings?
Option A could happen in 2012 if Obama loses the White House because it would mean the GOP kept the House and likely won the Senate. Now senate rules
dictate the 60-vote cloture vote, and senate rules can be changed at the beginning of each new Congress with simple majority vote. So if the GOP has
the White House and House, you can bet they'll change the Senate rules to make it a simple majority rules with no cloture votes.
[Edited on 9-16-2011 by C.MontgomeryPunk]
I remember Eddie Guerrero.
|
|
|
OOMike
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1736
Registered 1-3-2002 Location Columbus, OH Member Is Offline Mood: busy
|
| posted on 9-16-2011 at 11:57 AM |
|
|
Not to get slightly off topic, but Jack brought up an interesting thought I have had, what if, instead of a effective third party, forcing a coalition
government when not one party has majority, we get rid of parties all together? No more running as a Democrat or Republican, you run on your record
or on the issues. No more millions donated to parties for election campaigns.
I know this has even less chance than a third party, but I wonder if it would change anything?
The movie "Idiocracy" was really a documentary.
Never let the facts interfere with a good rant.
The only OO columnist that has never written a column.
|
|
|
Cherokee Jack
Fella
Posts 325
Registered 2-24-2009 Location New Orleans, LA Member Is Offline Mood:
|
| posted on 9-17-2011 at 01:10 AM |
|
|
Yeah, I didn't note that Murdoch owns the WSJ. But if you want to get to outlets beyond the Fox banner, he/News Corp. owns media outlets of all
sorts (TV, internet, radio, print) all over the world.
And the "no parties" is a nice theory, but the problem there is, even if there are no official parties, you'll still see people with like
interests align against those whose interests they're against. So we'd end up with the same situation we have now, even if the "D" and
"R" labels aren't involved.
And third party candidates in today's system, given how the election system/electoral college works, will only serve to swing the election to
either the Democratic or Republican candidate (See: Bush/Clinton/Perot, Bush/Gore/Nader).
You might get an occasional congressman here and there, but more than likely they'll just immediately align with whichever of the two big
parties is closer to theirs.
I'm Cherokee Jack!
2010 OO Fantasy Football Champion!
|
|
|
chretienbabacool
The Great One
Posts 3279
Registered 3-5-2003 Location Columbia, MO Member Is Offline Mood: Go Cubs!
|
| posted on 9-17-2011 at 02:30 AM |
|
|
The thing is I don't actually think political extremism is worse now then it has been. This is a country where major political parties
supported slavery, genocide against Native Americans, complete subjugation against women, "The Jungle" like conditions for workers and support of
Union busting by violence. Corruption among politicians was far worse especially in the beginning of the system with state politician election of
federal politicians. While the Tea Party is an awful entity, it is awful because it wants to bring us back to many of those conditions, not because
we're there yet.
While there are major issues with the Democratic and Republican parties, in the end they do provide a certain check on the most extreme politicians.
Anyone advocating completely wing nut positions tends to get a certain amount of push back from lifer politicos who would like to keep their job in
other parts of the country. None of it is great and we need something like Instant Runoff Voting to allow viable third parties but if it were a free
for all without parties I do think extremism would get even worse.
All this said, going back to my first point I do think it's important not to buy into the media message that things are worse then they've
ever been because it's simply not true. It's coupled with the same idea that society is a more violent, amoral place and things used to
be better which is also not true. Political corruption (and hell let's not forget I thought what Weiner and Bill Clinton both did was bad)
should be condemned always but political corruption now that gets huge media scrutiny is by and large far tamer than what many people got away with
through most of our history without a second glance.
|
|
|
OOMike
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1736
Registered 1-3-2002 Location Columbus, OH Member Is Offline Mood: busy
|
| posted on 9-17-2011 at 09:40 PM |
|
|
I don't think I was completely clear in my post, I am not talking about the media or people in general. I am talking about people I have
personally talked/argued with not being able to admit any fault on their own side.
The other side is always worse because "we" would never do anything like that.
I don't know if you have any extreme leaning friends to talk to, but if you do see if they will admit that the politicans on their extreme have
ever done anything wrong.
The movie "Idiocracy" was really a documentary.
Never let the facts interfere with a good rant.
The only OO columnist that has never written a column.
|
|
|
Paddlefoot
Posts 1976
Registered 1-19-2008 Location Circus Of Gay Member Is Offline Mood: F'd N Da A
|
| posted on 9-18-2011 at 02:32 AM |
|
|
I don't know if people themselves are more extreme in their viewpoints or politics but the avenues of communications, such as the internet and
FOX News, that are available to the genuine extremists are more numerous now than they ever were in the past. Fifteen years ago they would have been
restricted to spreading their filth through things like The Ron Paul Newsletter or putting pamphlets full of incredibly bad spelling an grammar
underneath the windshield wipers of cars in parking lots. Now they have the 'net and a 24/7/365 megaphone of pure crazy at FOX to continuously
keep shouting at everyone through. A lot of the polarization is just using basic communication tools to spread a bunch of nasty and malicious
bullshit.
GW Bush read Camus because "everyone has to read a book written by a killer whale" - General JC Christian
I downloaded the soundtrack to "Song of the South," and it's 45 minutes of whipcracks, women pleading "please, no," and people screaming.
- the esteemed Dr. Mobute
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir? - John Maynard Keynes
|
|
|
williamssl
Steers and Queers 
Posts 4317
Registered 1-11-2004 Location Hippieville Member Is Offline Mood: Fuck USC
|
| posted on 9-18-2011 at 06:03 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
A lot of the polarization is just using basic communication tools to spread a bunch of nasty and malicious bullshit.
Paddlefoot caught the clap from a 12 year old he molested in a Burger King restroom.
Pass it on.
Don't Mess With Texas
|
|
|
Paddlefoot
Posts 1976
Registered 1-19-2008 Location Circus Of Gay Member Is Offline Mood: F'd N Da A
|
| posted on 9-19-2011 at 01:57 AM |
|
|
Pass what on? The clap or the rumour?
You are a silly, silly man.
GW Bush read Camus because "everyone has to read a book written by a killer whale" - General JC Christian
I downloaded the soundtrack to "Song of the South," and it's 45 minutes of whipcracks, women pleading "please, no," and people screaming.
- the esteemed Dr. Mobute
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir? - John Maynard Keynes
|
|
|
