the goon
Sister Act 
Posts 5718
Registered 3-13-2004 Location Charlotte, NC Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 6-8-2016 at 09:49 AM |
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So how come the WWE has never tried to recycle arguably the most successful wrestling angle ever, the nWo?
The basis for this thread comes from a fantasy booking scenario I had recently (which I mentioned in last week's RAW thread), where Cena would
have turned heel on AJ Styles and aligned with Gallows/Anderson, thus becoming something of a modern day equivalent of Hollywood Hogan, with Gallows
and Anderson playing his Hall and Nash. Obviously, that idea was dashed about ten minutes into Cena's return last week, but it got me thinking:
it's generally considered that all angles/gimmicks/etc get recycled at some point, so how come the WWE has never attempted to redo the nWo
angle, which is what kicked off the pro wrestling boom of the late 90's? Sure, they've done similar things (Nexus would probably be the
closest, but even that was a fairly different animal than the nWo), but it's just kind of surprising that in the 15 years since the demise of
WCW, the WWE really hasn't done their own "major babyface turns heel and then other wrestlers shockingly join his faction while attempting to
take over the company" storyline.
I'm guessing part of it may be that Vince didn't come up with the nWo storyline, so maybe he's always shot done any ideas of doing
something similar. Or perhaps he was disillusioned with the real nWo's failed WWE run in 2002, so he doesn't want to revisit the idea
anymore. Either way, it's just kind of curious that it had such a huge impact on wrestling in the late 90's yet has never been
revisited/recycled since then. Hell, I think the WWE is the only promotion in wrestling who hasn't tried to do their own nWo angle at some point
in time.
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BBMN
HAVES A CROOKED DICK!! ! 
Posts 2178
Registered 6-27-2007 Location tumblr Member Is Offline Mood: SJW
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| posted on 6-8-2016 at 02:37 PM |
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I think the success of the NWO hinged upon several factors that just can't be recreated in the writers' room. The biggest babyface going
bad, and the constant threat of new top talent coming in from the rival promotion to wreak havoc on the status quo being the main reasons it went over
so well. Cena is the only comparable guy to Hogan at this point, but there is no true competitor to the E. There was a true aura of 'anything
can happen' in the mid-late nineties, and I don't think we will see that ever recreated in our lifetimes.
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merc
Showstopper
Posts 933
Registered 2-23-2006 Location New England Member Is Offline Mood: Where's MiCasa?
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| posted on 6-8-2016 at 04:12 PM |
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First off, THANK YOU GOON for making a thread!
I think Gallows & Anderson < Hall & Nash.
That said, maybe AJ Styles playing Hall and... Samoa Joe (before NXT) playing Nash gets this going. Then G&A; can come in as fodder muscle.
I HATED Hogan (and Savage) jumping on the NWO bandwagon. Leave it fresh...maybe have (DOM please go to the rumor thread) ORTON return and jump on
board with a not appreciated rant...erh bumbling stumbling talk would work.
That gets you a credible five, that you could build on...Wade Barrett? Ryback?
An outstanding question!
[Edited on 6-8-2016 by merc]
They are called "letters" when put together they make "words". Words make moving photos unnecessary.
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lz4005
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1331
Registered 11-12-2003 Member Is Offline Mood: Oolitic
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| posted on 6-8-2016 at 04:22 PM |
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Like BBMN said, an NWO-like angle can't happen without a competing wrestling company that is much closer to being WWE's equal than any fed
that exists in 2016.
That plus literally nobody on the roster could pull it off organically like Hall and Nash did.
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Count Zero
Man of a Thousand Holds 
Posts 1125
Registered 1-29-2013 Location Canada East Member Is Offline Mood: splitting brandache
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| posted on 6-8-2016 at 05:05 PM |
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Does the nExUs count?
They "destroyed the set" of Raw & everything.
Originally posted by williamssl
"That hasn't stopped us from doing this shit before!"
"Checkmate, sir. Checkmate"
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Flash
The Rowdy One
Posts 2786
Registered 4-22-2005 Location Brantford, Ontario Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 6-8-2016 at 05:26 PM |
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An NWO-esque storyline could have been done with "wrestlers" versus "Sports entertainers" a few times now.... The WWE had/has such a great roster
of guys who were/are typically seen as Indy talent, and not Vince's hand picked champions.... but I think a lot of those Indy guy's have
now been pretty integrated or have moved on.
Still it would have been cool.... an US vs Them where everyone is still WWE, but a battle for what the WWE could be, and is...
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nOOb
The Man 
Posts 6646
Registered 5-24-2004 Member Is Offline Mood: Hot Dog!
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| posted on 6-8-2016 at 05:28 PM |
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I think it's pretty much two things:
1). The nWo initially caught headlines because it was essentially WWF invading WCW without it being WWF invading WCW. Outside of NXT, there's
really no one that would have that impact.
2). WWE has the attention span of a gnat if it doesn't involve John Cena. And if it does, John Cena has to defeat it within a month or two
decisively.
"The Seahawks are cool. Me and Tubby here hung out with them once at a Bruno Mars concert."-Jay and Silent Bob representing the Broncos on FOX NFL
Sunday.
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Paddlefoot
Rocco Rock of Jabroni
Posts 5564
Registered 1-19-2008 Location in my safe space, damn you! Member Is Offline Mood: obsolete aryan
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| posted on 6-8-2016 at 05:45 PM |
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It was just too epic of an angle to ever be successfully repeated. Even WCW was unable to do it again with Nash, Bret, Jarrett, and the others they
had in the short-lived NWO 2000 attempt. Best not to even mention the WWE attempt with the NWO because aside from the Hogan vs. Rock matches, and the
infamous promo where Hogan smashed the big rig into the ambulance with Rocky inside it, there was barely anything memorable that came out of it.
It's like Stone Cold and The Rock too. Gimmicks like that no matter how successful they are, are lightning-in-a-bottle moments. Something
special happens as it's unfolding, even if the overall meta is scripted. Trying to deliberately repeat something that happens naturally on
it's own, thanks to the intangibles a Steve Austin or Dwayne Johnson brought into the act, simply doesn't work.
I suppose a shorter answer could be that with the original NWO, and for most of the next year and a half afterwards, all the principal characters
really brought their A-game to the effort. Especially Hogan who, for all his ego and flaws, really did a killer job on turning himself into one of the
most hateful, and hateable, characters wrestling has ever seen. This was probably because of the intense vibe of the Monday Night Wars where both
sides were knocking themselves out to make their overall presentations as compelling as possible. As someone already mentioned, without a legit
competitor like WCW around anymore, WWE just won't have the intensity required to pull it off again. No Soviet Union around to play the spoiler
in the 1950's and '60's and no one in the US is going to bother to get the first man to walk on the moon, so to speak. "And when
Alexander saw the breadth of his domain, he wept for there were no more worlds to conquer".
[Edited on 6/8/2016 by Paddlefoot]
You are a bastard. A daughter-fucking wildling bastard.
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DKBroiler
SpeciASSl CUMedian
Posts 1200
Registered 1-25-2008 Location One Inch Right of Philly on a Map Member Is Offline Mood: Old
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| posted on 6-8-2016 at 07:32 PM |
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A couple of things.
- Evolution kind of fit the bill as an NWO'esque heel faction.
- The NWO actually was a recycled storyline from Japan.
- It may have been almost 20 years but DVDs, special appearances and, now, The Network make it feel like it was 20 weeks ago.
- Mostly because of the NWO heels are often more popular than the faces. All a Cena heel turn would do would cause him to be booed by kids and
cheered by adult males.
- It took a while but I'd venture a guess that Cena has more IWC street cred now than ever before. We may have missed the window.
- No slight on Anderson and Gallows but they are not Hall and Nash.
- The Authority was also pretty NWOesque as was DX.
All of that said, I agree Cena would have to be Hogan, but you'd probably have to go with 2 of HHH, Orton, Rollins or ReBooooo as Hall and Nash,
but then they just become Cenavolution and Cenashield.
They probably would have needed to include Bryan or Punk but those ships have sailed too.
And even if they get crazy and do Cena/Lesnar/Undertaker who the F is gonna boo them?
Get off my lawn.
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Thom
The Immortal One 
Posts 4662
Registered 1-14-2003 Location At the gym Member Is Offline Mood: Rather be lifting
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| posted on 6-8-2016 at 07:48 PM |
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I'd like to give Vinnie Mac the benefit of the doubt in that he knows that it would most likely come across as just a cheap rip-off.
Yes, I actually was able to type that with a straight face.
#GLENNSURVIVESLOL - Cherokee Jack, from TWD Season 6 thread
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First 9
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1819
Registered 1-22-2013 Member Is Offline Mood: Doing the Emma Dance
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| posted on 6-9-2016 at 02:22 AM |
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It really can't work with a clear top face on top. The nWo thrived because the top guy was leading the charge and there was no sacred figure
they couldn't destroy. Sting was built up as the nWo ravage the first line of defenses in Savage and Flair.
You can't really do that in WWE's atmosphere where there's always one or two untouchables. The Nexus could have been a
''young blood vs veterans'' version but they weren't allowed to beat Cena, if you try to go back then you bump into
Batista, The Undertaker, HHH, etc.
The best time for it was on RAW in 02-03 where a heel was already the top dog and no face was made to look untouchable but they used that time to have
HHH pull his version of the Four Horsemen.
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bopol
Showstopper 
Posts 534
Registered 1-18-2013 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 6-9-2016 at 02:55 AM |
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Most invasion angles fail because the company refuses to make the invaders look like credible threats for any length of time. This one works because
they made them credible threats, but had them dominate (probably for too long).
On a smaller scale, the BDK invasion in Chikara was booked incredibly well.
I only signed up so I can read the forum.
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the goon
Sister Act
Posts 5718
Registered 3-13-2004 Location Charlotte, NC Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 6-9-2016 at 08:02 AM |
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I guess I'm just surprised that the WWE has never tried a similar angle, just as a way to spark interest in the product and get people to tune
into the shows. Given that everything in pro wrestling seems to get recycled eventually (and this is the same company that has no problem recycling
the "evil RAW/Smackdown GM" storyline ad nauseam), you would think that at some point in the past 20 years Vince or someone in creative would say
"hey, that Hogan heel turn and all the crazy twists of the nWo storyline were huge back in the day...why don't we do something like that?"
And I should add that I don't think the WWE necessarily needs to recycle the nWo storyline (and everyone has stated some good reasons as
to why it wouldn't work), but it's just kind of a curious WWE factoid to me that they have never even attempted to, given what a huge
success it originally was.
Nash is only a few inches bigger than JBL and depending on how stiff he gets Punk should be able to take it. -JB King, meant in a totally non-sexual
way
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salmonjunkie
Best There Is Was or Ever Will Be 
Posts 11377
Registered 6-25-2002 Location Sunny Seattle, WA Member Is Offline Mood: Authoritized
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| posted on 6-9-2016 at 05:14 PM |
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Nexus was the closest they got, and that could've had some legs if Cena had let Wade win their championship match. (I think Edge and Jericho
have both said that Cena went the wrong way with that match, and that Cena eventurally agreed). They could've done that and still have CM Punk
try to take over. They could've had two Nexuses (a la Hollywood/Wolfpac), one led by Wade and one by Punk instead of that Corre thing they
tried to do.
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the goon
Sister Act
Posts 5718
Registered 3-13-2004 Location Charlotte, NC Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 6-9-2016 at 06:24 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by salmonjunkie
Nexus was the closest they got, and that could've had some legs if Cena had let Wade win their championship match. (I think Edge and Jericho
have both said that Cena went the wrong way with that match, and that Cena eventurally agreed).
The match that Cena later admitted he made the wrong call on was actually the Team WWE vs Nexus match from SummerSlam 2010, which Team WWE won (and
had Cena as the sole survivor). Randy Orton was champion during that time and Barrett did get two PPV main events against him, but didn't win
the title of course.
And the death knell for Nexus and Barrett was the night after Survivor Series 2010; Barrett had failed to win the title from Orton at the PPV, got a
rematch the next night on RAW and failed to win that, and then Miz cashed in his MITB shot immediately after the match and won the WWE title. I
don't think Nexus or Barrett were ever involved in the main event scene again after that.
Nash is only a few inches bigger than JBL and depending on how stiff he gets Punk should be able to take it. -JB King, meant in a totally non-sexual
way
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denverpunk
The Rowdy One
Posts 2396
Registered 6-27-2007 Location Mile-Hi Member Is Offline Mood: Stoked
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| posted on 6-9-2016 at 06:34 PM |
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NWO was a lightning in a bottle type of success. Hall and Nash already had huge name recognition from WWF when they jumped to WCW, and that was
topped off by the biggest wrestler ever making an incredible heel turn. They were booked perfectly (at first, at least, which would never happen in
WWE today) and all this happened at a time when wrestling was at its most popular. These variables just can't be recreated.
Another question might be how to end a NWO type angle the right way. As successful as NWO was, it ended up destroying WCW due to the egos involved.
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Paddlefoot
Rocco Rock of Jabroni
Posts 5564
Registered 1-19-2008 Location in my safe space, damn you! Member Is Offline Mood: obsolete aryan
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| posted on 6-9-2016 at 06:59 PM |
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We need to keep in mind, if comparing NWO to Nexus, that except for Sting, Goldberg, and (to an extent DDP), the NWO didn't put anyone over any
more than Cena did. And Cena exists in an era where the feuds are wrapped up in a couple of months and it can be weakly argued by WWE that there
"just isn't time to put the other guy over". The NWO had those running feuds that lasted for over a year, where there was time to build the
other guy up but for whatever reason they just didn't. Pretty sure, even if Superman Cena wins in the end, that during his feuds he ends up as
the victim of major beatdowns and left as a heap in the ring a hell of a lot more than Hulk/Hollywood Hogan ever did.
You are a bastard. A daughter-fucking wildling bastard.
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Cherokee Jack
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1262
Registered 2-24-2009 Location New Orleans, LA Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 6-9-2016 at 07:12 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bopol
Most invasion angles fail because the company refuses to make the invaders look like credible threats for any length of time. This one works because
they made them credible threats, but had them dominate (probably for too long).
On a smaller scale, the BDK invasion in Chikara was booked incredibly well.
The entire Flood storyline as well was pretty damn good, with them
going so far as to "shut down" the company and not run any shows under the Chikara banner for nearly a year. It also helps that it's on a much
smaller scale, as they have an audience that's intensely passionate about the company and is fully willing to "play along" while it plays
out.
The reason it wouldn't work in WWE is primarily because times have changed. In 1996 the internet wasn't nearly the factor it is today, and
people really thought that WWF had sent guys into WCW, or at the very least that these were two renegades not under contract to anyone showing up to
make chaos. It went to the point that by a court order, WCW had to bring them out on TV, have Bischoff ask them point blank "Do you work for the
WWF?" and them respond no. You just can't get that mystery in this day and age.
But even if it's clearly a worked angle, you also run into the problem of making the invaders look weak. The WCW invasion was brought up as an
example. That story could've gone on for years.. They blew through it in six months, only maybe one or two of which were actually
interesting story-wise. They brought in the nWo afterwards. That story could've had a good run, and it was largely killed off within a month,
and completely finished within 2-3. The ego of Vince McMahon (and some of the wrestlers too, to be fair) simply wouldn't allow these guys coming
in from the outside to look like equals, let alone superiors, to his established guys.
Finally, you need big stars. And in today's wrestling landscape, there's no one that could pull off the "wow" factor like Hall and Nash.
Even if none of these guys had shown up in NXT yet, you could have Bobby Roode, Samoa Joe, Eric Young and Austin Aries hit the ring on Raw one week
and start laying waste to guys, and the response from most people in the audience would be either "oh, it's all those guys that just left TNA,
I guess they're in WWE now" or "who the fuck are those guys?" The star power just isn't there without a true national equal to WWE.
So WCW had the benefits of "smart" fans not being so prevolent yet, legit top-tier guys to work with, and a willingness to let the new guys look
like real threats (some would say they made them way too strong, but beside the point). Those are circumstances that are unlikely-to-impossible to
line up in today's world.
I'm Cherokee Jack!
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Zeyes
ButtViper
Posts 4
Registered 1-26-2015 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 6-9-2016 at 08:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by denverpunk
NWO was a lightning in a bottle type of success. Hall and Nash already had huge name recognition from WWF when they jumped to WCW, and that was
topped off by the biggest wrestler ever making an incredible heel turn. They were booked perfectly (at first, at least, which would never happen in
WWE today) and all this happened at a time when wrestling was at its most popular. These variables just can't be recreated.
I'd say part of what made it a success was also that, for as much as it was already struggling at the time, WWF was seen as the much bigger deal
in wrestling than WCW. It essentially played out as stars from the top organization going rogue and trying to turn a lesser organization into their
personal playground. I don't think the same angle would have played nearly as well if it had been WCW stars invading WWF. Hall and Nash started
out with the type of credibility (both kayfabe and real) that guys going the other way almost never had back then, with Ric Flair arguably the only
exception.
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Paddlefoot
Rocco Rock of Jabroni
Posts 5564
Registered 1-19-2008 Location in my safe space, damn you! Member Is Offline Mood: obsolete aryan
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| posted on 6-9-2016 at 08:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Cherokee Jack
The reason it wouldn't work in WWE is primarily because times have changed. In 1996 the internet wasn't nearly the factor it is today, and
people really thought that WWF had sent guys into WCW, or at the very least that these were two renegades not under contract to anyone showing up to
make chaos. It went to the point that by a court order, WCW had to bring them out on TV, have Bischoff ask them point blank "Do you work for the
WWF?" and them respond no. You just can't get that mystery in this day and age.
I marked out like crazy for when they did that brief Jim Ross heel turn where he started going on about bringing Diesel and Razor Ramon back to WWF.
And was consequently pretty pissed off when he unveiled them and they were a couple of fakes, with him going "ha ha losers, we own the Diesel and
Razor characters, but I never said I was bringing Kevin Nash and Scott Hall back". A genuinely enraging swerve, which you just don't get to see
happen anymore in these current days.
You are a bastard. A daughter-fucking wildling bastard.
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