merc
Man of a Thousand Holds 
Posts 1086
Registered 2-23-2006 Location New England Member Is Offline Mood: Really FN bad
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| posted on 7-29-2016 at 10:29 PM |
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SI top 101 wrestlers of all time
Going here with this, as it's "all time"
http://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2016/07/26/wwe-wcw-ecw-100-best-wrestlers-all-time
the top 25
25. Bob Backlund
24. Edge
23. Buddy Rogers
22. Triple H
21. Daniel Bryan
20. Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat
19. Antonio Inoki
18. Kurt Angle
17. Randy Orton
16. Bret "Hitman" Hart
15. Mick Foley
14. Harley Race
13. Chris Jericho
12. "Rowdy" Roddy Piper
11. "Macho Man" Randy Savage
10. Andre the Giant
9. Sting
8. Hulk Hogan
7. John Cena
6. Dusty Rhodes
5. The Undertaker
4. The Rock
3. Stone Cold Steve Austin
2. Shawn Michaels
1. Ric Flair
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." D.
Adams
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Flash
The Rowdy One
Posts 2861
Registered 4-22-2005 Location Brantford, Ontario Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 8-2-2016 at 08:16 PM |
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It's an interesting list, they appear to be striking a balance between in ring skill, presence, cross over appeal, and maybe legendary feuds.
There's always going to be debate with a list like this.... I think my only disagreement would be with HHH ranking a bit lower that what
I'd maybe put him.... The guy has been the major heel for the last 20 years, with some pretty big face runs along the way. He's pretty
high up there in championships, and firsts... he's got plenty of big matches under his belt.... maybe not an epic moment, but that might also be
because of how long his career has been that stuff that might have once stood out on it's own is now just part of a bigger tapestry.
I don't know that I'd put him in the top ten; but I'd probably rank him higher than Bryan (maybe some of the biggest pops of all
time, but brevity of career on the mage stage) and Orton (he's like HHH light in terms of all of the above)... Maybe even higher than Steamboat
(maybe one of the biggest matches of all time, along with several long standing feuds, but by virtue of being in WCW probably overshadowed by the roll
the WWF was on at the time).
I don't know Inoki at all beyond his HOF induction a few years ago, a quick review of his Wiki bio definitely checks boxes for in ring
excellence, and for being a "builder" of the sport... so tough to say where he ranks in terms of the list.
I only quickly scanned the rest of the list... think this is where you are bound to get a bit more contention... Big Show at #96 seems way too low to
me... I'm probably a bit biased as he's one of my all time favourites, despite his character being a train wreck (far, far, far too many
face/heel turns) the man is an attraction in his own right... the 2nd greatest giant of all time by legacy and probably far more adept in the ring
than Andre ever was (obviously different eras asked different match styles). Still; if you look at his feuds in the micro he's got some pretty
decent ones.
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denverpunk
The Rowdy One
Posts 2433
Registered 6-27-2007 Location Mile-Hi Member Is Offline Mood: Stoked
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| posted on 8-3-2016 at 03:27 PM |
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This thread deserves to be on the main forum page where more people will see it. Thanks for posting this, Merc.
I like the relative lack of politics in this list. Most WWE 'greatest ever' lists tend to shit on Kurt Angle because he left WWE on bad
terms. None of that here.
I also agree that Triple H is probably too low, on there's no way Orton should be placed higher than him. Nice to see Edge getting some Top 25
love, and Chris Jericho really has had a tremendous career. And yes, Big Show is ranked too low, and should never be ranked below JBF'nL or
Rick Steiner.
RVD seems low at 55 and should not be ranked below Goldust.
Lesnar is too low at 27. I love Bob Backlund, but he's too high at 25.
And where's Tajiri??
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Matte
"Family Man" 
Posts 8684
Registered 12-16-2008 Member Is Offline Mood: #BROKEN
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| posted on 8-3-2016 at 03:33 PM |
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I can see and understand arguments for most of the positioning, but Orton ahead of Angle makes me shake my head in disappointment.
"I'm a professional. I know exactly what I'm doing." - Jeff Hardy
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Slade
The Great One
Posts 3715
Registered 11-10-2002 Location Fredericton, New Brunswick Member Is Offline Mood: Cero Miedo!
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| posted on 8-3-2016 at 03:40 PM |
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I feel like it is criminal not to include Randy Savage in the top ten, but then I look at everyone who made the top ten and find it very difficult to
argue that any of them should get bumped from the top ten.
"Love is making out with someone after you've blown a load on his/her face." - Dan Savage
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punkerhardcore
American Dream 
Posts 7730
Registered 7-16-2005 Member Is Offline Mood: Lickable
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| posted on 8-3-2016 at 05:19 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Slade
I feel like it is criminal not to include Randy Savage in the top ten, but then I look at everyone who made the top ten and find it very difficult to
argue that any of them should get bumped from the top ten.
Seriously? Because I find it super, super easy to argue this one--
quote:
10. Andre the Giant
Because no matter how much people still want to romanticize him, he sucked.
Is everyone mad here?
Of course they are, and you are too... otherwise, you wouldn't have come here.
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CCharger
The Rowdy One 
Posts 2746
Registered 7-21-2010 Member Is Offline Mood: Obtuse
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| posted on 8-3-2016 at 05:29 PM |
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These polls always lead me back to the argument of "What constitutes greatness in pro wrestling?"
Is it workrate?
Is it mike work?
Is it how many tickets sold?
Is it how much merch sold?
Is it mainstream/crossover attention and fame?
Is it championship won?
Is it main event/PPV matches?
Is it how much they entertained you?
Is it how much they influenced the industry?
The issue is this: is Shawn Michaels a better wrestler than Andre the Giant? Well, as an in-ring performer? Of couse. Michaels could perform moves
Andre never could. But non-wrestling fans know Andre more than they know HBK. Randy Savage was a better WRESTLER than Hulk Hogan, but there's no
argument that Hogan was a bigger star by almost every measure.
I think a lot of hardcore fans get caught up in wankery workrate arguments that would lead some to conclude that Zack Sabre Jr. is better than John
Cena. You have to take the totality of the wrestler, and not just how much cool, flippy shit or outrageous high spots they could do.
That's not a knock on the flippy guys. That stuff is cool and entertaining, of course, but when you are talking "greatness", you're
talking about something completely different.
[Edited on 8-3-2016 by CCharger]
When it Reigns, it bores.
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Matte
"Family Man"
Posts 8684
Registered 12-16-2008 Member Is Offline Mood: #BROKEN
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| posted on 8-3-2016 at 05:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
The issue is this: is Shawn Michaels a better wrestler than Andre the Giant? Well, as an in-ring performer? Of couse. Michaels could perform moves
Andre never could. But non-wrestling fans know Andre more than they know HBK.
This is one argument I hear a lot that I find kind of ridiculous. Why should non-fans knowing of a wrestler give that wrestler an edge in being the
greatest wrestler? I get that the industry itself wants to reach out and pull people in, but the fact that this could be used to argue that the
Bella twins are better wrestlers than a Lita or a Sasha Banks is pretty goofy. If I'm asking someone who was the better wrestler between
Kurt Angle and Andre the Giant and they say "oh, Andre, because my grandmother knows who he is" then I'm just assuming they misinterpreted the
question.
"I'm a professional. I know exactly what I'm doing." - Jeff Hardy
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CCharger
The Rowdy One
Posts 2746
Registered 7-21-2010 Member Is Offline Mood: Obtuse
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| posted on 8-3-2016 at 06:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Matte
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
The issue is this: is Shawn Michaels a better wrestler than Andre the Giant? Well, as an in-ring performer? Of couse. Michaels could perform moves
Andre never could. But non-wrestling fans know Andre more than they know HBK.
This is one argument I hear a lot that I find kind of ridiculous. Why should non-fans knowing of a wrestler give that wrestler an edge in being the
greatest wrestler? I get that the industry itself wants to reach out and pull people in, but the fact that this could be used to argue that the
Bella twins are better wrestlers than a Lita or a Sasha Banks is pretty goofy. If I'm asking someone who was the better wrestler between
Kurt Angle and Andre the Giant and they say "oh, Andre, because my grandmother knows who he is" then I'm just assuming they misinterpreted the
question.
That's my point though. There's no objective, quantitative way to answer the question of "best wrestler". It's a fake "sport",
so any measure you use to determine greatness is suspect.
It's like asking who the greatest movie actor or actress is.
When it Reigns, it bores.
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CamstunPWG187
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1444
Registered 5-2-2010 Location Harbin, China Member Is Offline Mood: Barbeque
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| posted on 8-3-2016 at 07:29 PM |
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Generico, Steen, Super Dragon, Hero, and Necro Butcher aren't there, yet strangely, Mike Quackenbush is.
That's not a knock on Quack, either. But he's a lot more niche (well, maybe not Necro) than the 5 others I just mentioned, so I
don't see how he's on and they aren't.
So really, fuck that list.
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Paddlefoot
Rocco Rock of Jabroni
Posts 5829
Registered 1-19-2008 Location Scarsguard Member Is Offline Mood: Finally Deleted
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| posted on 8-3-2016 at 07:39 PM |
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I guess because it's SI we're all supposed to go "oh wow, SI's commenting on our sport, that means they like us, yay SI!". Fuck
SI. These lists are as meaningless coming from them the same way they're meaningless if they come from Meltzer or an Apter magazine. Maybe even
less relevant, because at least Meltzer and Apter cover the gig full time, whereas the "serious" publications like SI probably tossed the assignment
to some underpaid intern looking for something to do.
You know, everyone says it's not supposed to make sense, like that's the whole point, dude. And I'm just saying, you know,
that's like an excuse for lazy storytelling. Just don't sell me shite and tell me it's gold, all right? I might be stoned, but
I'm not high. You know what I mean?
- Cassidy from Preacher, commenting on The Big Lebowski and/or professional wrestling
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bigfatgoalie
The Man
Posts 6218
Registered 1-16-2002 Location Stratusphere Member Is Offline Mood: Stratusfied
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| posted on 8-3-2016 at 08:00 PM |
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HBK over Austin? No...just no.
Outside of not hitting women and doing coke...what was HBK better at than Austin?
Hogan and Andre making the top 10 shows that this isn't just a work rate list. Which make Bruno not being in the top 25 and Race AND Backlund
making the cut super weird. Sting in the top 10 over Bret? Seems like over valuing Crow String and discounting Bret's popularity (he was on the
Simpsons durring their peak). Daniel Bryan getting a nod despite a short career...but no Brock?
Maybe instead of another showdown we do a Top 100? Where we rank our own top 100 and we compile an overall list based on total points? Ie if I rank
Trish #1 she gets 100 points, and Lita at 100 she gets 1?
Basically I have no desire to click the link for the rest of the list. The top 10 shows no central basis for how the list was made, let alone the top
25. No reason to think much thought was put in to the rest of the list.
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denverpunk
The Rowdy One
Posts 2433
Registered 6-27-2007 Location Mile-Hi Member Is Offline Mood: Stoked
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| posted on 8-3-2016 at 08:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
I guess because it's SI we're all supposed to go "oh wow, SI's commenting on our sport, that means they like us, yay SI!". Fuck
SI. These lists are as meaningless coming from them the same way they're meaningless if they come from Meltzer or an Apter magazine. Maybe even
less relevant, because at least Meltzer and Apter cover the gig full time, whereas the "serious" publications like SI probably tossed the assignment
to some underpaid intern looking for something to do.
Isn't this what we do with our showdowns here, though?
[Edited on 8-3-2016 by denverpunk]
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Paddlefoot
Rocco Rock of Jabroni
Posts 5829
Registered 1-19-2008 Location Scarsguard Member Is Offline Mood: Finally Deleted
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| posted on 8-3-2016 at 08:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by denverpunk
quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
I guess because it's SI we're all supposed to go "oh wow, SI's commenting on our sport, that means they like us, yay SI!". Fuck
SI. These lists are as meaningless coming from them the same way they're meaningless if they come from Meltzer or an Apter magazine. Maybe even
less relevant, because at least Meltzer and Apter cover the gig full time, whereas the "serious" publications like SI probably tossed the assignment
to some underpaid intern looking for something to do.
Isn't this what we do with our showdowns here, though?
[Edited on 8-3-2016 by denverpunk]
We're coming from a place of knowledge because, no matter how many of us are sk8rbois with our own biases we at least know and watch the
business. It's like our lifeblood or something. It's like if The Hockey News ran a list of the 100 Greatest Hockey Players Of All Time
I'd take it seriously but if they ran a 100 Greatest Baseball Players list I wouldn't. OO's final ten women wrestler's list,
for example, was pretty damn authoritative because by that time we'd gotten all the "look at them titties/butt cheeks" out of our system and
were grading the contest strictly on talent.
As for the "serious" guys like SI or ESPN? Well, considering how good they are at not reporting serious things when they happen maybe they should
run a 100 Greatest Unindicted Rapists In College & Professional Football list. They'd probably be great at that kind of reporting, given how
deep in the tank they are for the major sports leagues in order to maintain their access (and free tickets!) to the players and games.
You know, everyone says it's not supposed to make sense, like that's the whole point, dude. And I'm just saying, you know,
that's like an excuse for lazy storytelling. Just don't sell me shite and tell me it's gold, all right? I might be stoned, but
I'm not high. You know what I mean?
- Cassidy from Preacher, commenting on The Big Lebowski and/or professional wrestling
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Nobledictator1278
Fella
Posts 263
Registered 4-9-2013 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 8-3-2016 at 08:28 PM |
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I like all these wrestlers....but top five has to be Flair, Hogan, Rock, Austin...... and then pick one....Id say Macho Man...... if you ask any body
about wrestling they can name those 5...... They transcended the industry..... to me your HBK's , Bret harts, UT's have always been that
next tier have always been that next tier.
But Hogan has to be #1....anyone over the age of 10 thinks Wrestling...and Hulk Hogan has to be the name said. Most iconic WM moment, Huge in Red and
Yellow, Leader of the most popular stable since the Horsemen..... and his main stream appeal..... what more would you rank?
There was so much nostalgia for this man.... he comes back to a even and the fans cheer him over super baby face Rock....because for 20 mins they were
kids again. Any list that doesn't have Hogan as number one.... thinks all wrestling is is work rate.
[Edited on 8-3-2016 by Nobledictator1278]
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Matte
"Family Man"
Posts 8684
Registered 12-16-2008 Member Is Offline Mood: #BROKEN
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| posted on 8-3-2016 at 09:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Nobledictator1278
But Hogan has to be #1....anyone over the age of 10 thinks Wrestling...and Hulk Hogan has to be the name said. Most iconic WM moment, Huge in Red and
Yellow, Leader of the most popular stable since the Horsemen..... and his main stream appeal..... what more would you rank?
Wrestling?
quote:
There was so much nostalgia for this man.... he comes back to a even and the fans cheer him over super baby face Rock....because for 20 mins
they were kids again. Any list that doesn't have Hogan as number one.... thinks all wrestling is is work rate.
Did you realize they have Hogan and Andre above Angle and Bryan? I don't think this list is based only on workrate.
"I'm a professional. I know exactly what I'm doing." - Jeff Hardy
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First 9
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1916
Registered 1-22-2013 Member Is Offline Mood: Doing the Emma Dance
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| posted on 8-4-2016 at 03:20 AM |
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There's a very clear distinction between star power and name recognition. Yeah, everybody knows who Hulk Hogan is but as title run in 2002
proved he's not an eternal box office draw that will always make money. The Rock coming back after a decade and shattering ppv buyrates proved
he's reached level of pop culture popularity nobody else comes close too. Hogan coming back in 2002, getting a big reaction in Toronto, handed
the Title and quickly getting taken it off proves he was a nostalgia act more than anything. Hell, due to his constant politicking he was
undisputidely the face of WCW when a Stone Cold led WWF handed them their asses.
Looking how guys like Dusty Rhodes, Terry Funk, Steamboat slowed down after their years on top even when they still had gas in the tank makes me roll
my eyes at HHH's decade plus reign at the top being this big accomplishment. Yeah, he got a lot of Title runs but most of them sucked. Bryan got
more over than him in 3 years than he ever did in his 20 year career in WWE. He's perfectly fine at #22. A long lasting utility player with some
great moments and matches to his name, but never really a titan of the industry.
The only top 25 guy that puzzles me is Orton. Best I can guess is that they wanted to have a bit from every era in the upper echelon.
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merc
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1086
Registered 2-23-2006 Location New England Member Is Offline Mood: Really FN bad
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| posted on 8-4-2016 at 03:32 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
We're coming from a place of knowledge because, no matter how many of us are sk8rbois with our own biases we at least know and watch the
business. It's like our lifeblood or something. It's like if The Hockey News ran a list of the 100 Greatest Hockey Players Of All Time
I'd take it seriously but if they ran a 100 Greatest Baseball Players list I wouldn't. OO's final ten women wrestler's list,
for example, was pretty damn authoritative because by that time we'd gotten all the "look at them titties/butt cheeks" out of our system and
were grading the contest strictly on talent.
Pad,
Hopefully ya didn't hurt your sciatica patting yerself on the back! 
Any women's list that doesn't put Mildred Burke at the top is made by people who only vote for what they have seen during their lives.
Read one of the two books written about her, read books about other era appropriate male wrestlers and you'll see a mention of her. Understand
see how she changed wrestling, not just women's wrestling, managed the primary national women's circuit and got tooled by her husband and
ultimately banished. No woman is historically more important.
We (I include me and the SI DB) suck at historical analysis. No meaningful stats to review, even "sellouts" were Kayfabed. As someone mentioned,
no agreed to stats. My personal measurement is "the performer who leaves me feeling emotionally satisfied". I've been reading a lot of older
books and watching older videos. Some are fuckin painful, but the crowd reactions are awesome. They hadn't seen today's jumpy-flippy
fuck psychology sport entertainment, so a 20 minute headlock meant something.
So without statistical reference, or having viewed Ed Lewis, Lou Thesz, Rikodozian, Shirkat and many others we are stuck in our own time locked
references.
From my childhood, Chief Jay Strongbow jumps out. People who didn't know wrassling, knew about the Chief (although most didn't know he
was an Italian past his prime), he main evented secondary markets and could work a crowd like very few I've ever seen. If a heel turn was in
order, CJS was the targeted victim.
BUT HE WAS TERRIBLE by any Hogan era or later standard. Hell he was terrible by Southern wrestling during his era. Limited moveset, gases quickly,
poor physic n not much looked real. That said, If I were starting a top something list, based on my experiences CJS would make a top 20-25.
There's other stuff that contributes, but beer...
BTW, BOBBY ORR ranks where in hockey? 
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." D.
Adams
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GodEatGod
Showstopper 
Posts 914
Registered 1-14-2004 Location Monroe, LA Member Is Offline Mood: Weird
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| posted on 8-4-2016 at 04:51 AM |
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It just wouldn't be a listing thread on here without Merc pulling the name of your great grandpa's favorite wrestler out of the attic and
being outraged at them being overlooked by the young'uns. He truly is our very own JBL.
I would drop Andre, lower, yeah. He's famous, but a lot of his lingering fame comes more from Princess Bride and his legendary drinking tales
than his wrestling. The WM III match is, of course, a big deal, but he was literally just a heavy boulder with a reputation at that point (HIT HIM
WITH A ROCK!)
I'd put HHH just ahead of Bret Hart probably, right next to Foley.
And I agree with the sentiment that fame outside of wrestling shouldn't mean that much to how great of a wrestler they are. And honestly, a lot
more people know who Shawn Michaels and Undertaker and such are than it sometimes seems - they just aren't the FIRST reference that people come
to.
And HBK is better at wrestling than Austin. Austin's a better talker, but Shawn's a better worker. It's close, though, and
it's splitting hairs anyway.
"It is an impressively arrogant move to conclude that just because you don't like something, it is empirically not good. I don't like
Chinese food, but I don't write articles trying to prove it doesn't exist." - Tina Fey
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Slade
The Great One
Posts 3715
Registered 11-10-2002 Location Fredericton, New Brunswick Member Is Offline Mood: Cero Miedo!
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| posted on 8-4-2016 at 12:50 PM |
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quote:
Posted by punkerhardcore
Seriously? Because I find it super, super easy to argue this one--
quote:
10. Andre the Giant
Because no matter how much people still want to romanticize him, he sucked.
quote:
Posted by GodEatGod
I would drop Andre, lower, yeah. He's famous, but a lot of his lingering fame comes more from Princess Bride and his legendary drinking tales
than his wrestling. The WM III match is, of course, a big deal, but he was literally just a heavy boulder with a reputation at that point (HIT HIM
WITH A ROCK!)
Andr� was a big deal for a long time. He was a huge draw for well over a decade prior to the era of Wrestlemanias and Rock 'n Wrestling of the
mid-to-late eighties. He regularly sold out the Montr�al Forum before he was even billed as Andr� The Giant. Back in the '70's, he was
known to do dropkicks and fly off of the turnbuckles. When he was younger, he had the stamina to go 60 minutes in the ring with the likes of Harley
Race and Nick Bockwinkel. Yeah, by the time of Wrestlemania III, he was a heavy boulder with no mobility who was riding on his past fame and
reputation, but the only reason he was able to continue at that point was because of the capital he build up for himself by that point. To argue that
Andr� should fall further down the list is to ignore everything he did before his body started to fail him.
Andr� is famous for wrestling and being a wrestler, not because he was in the Princess Bride. He had a run that spanned nearly two decades. He was
"undefeated" for like 15 years before Hogan pinned him at the biggest drawing wrestling event of all-time. Hulkamania may have been at its peak, but
I would argue that Hogan against any other opponent would not have drawn as much as Hogan vs. Andr� because Andr� was a legend at that point. There
was an aura about him that led to him becoming known as the Eighth Wonder of the World. He was a huge deal everywhere he went.
Now, if you're going to knock someone down the list because his fame is mostly attached to movies, then you've got to knock The Rock down
a few pegs. If I was to drop anyone out of the top 10, I think it would be him. I'm pretty sure most of The Rock's fame is now tied to his
acting career more so than it is to wrestling. Your first instinct might be to disagree with me, but ask anyone under the age of twenty about him.
They know him more for being a movie star than for his wrestling. They might tell you that he was a wrestler, but that isn't how or why they
know him. They know him for making Fast & Furious movies (and others). And while one might say that he became the biggest superstar of all-time, he
lacks longevity as a top draw (mostly because he transitioned into film). In addition to his wrestling career being much shorter than the rest of the
best, he also lacks the workrate reputation that guys like Shawn Michaels, Ric Flair, Kurt Angle, Steve Austin, Bret Hart and Ricky Steamboat have, so
he shouldn't be high up there if that's something that you think is incredibly important. If there is a case to be made to dump anyone out
of the top ten, on this list, it has to be The Rock.
"Love is making out with someone after you've blown a load on his/her face." - Dan Savage
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Peteman77
ButtViper
Posts 6
Registered 4-27-2015 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 8-4-2016 at 01:38 PM |
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I'm surprised at some exclusions from the entire list. I don't think I saw Sgt. Slaughter, Paul Orndorff, Honky Tonk Man or Booker T on
the list. I just don't think some of the guys in the lower half rate higher than some of those guys. I mean I understand it's all
subjective, but I'm surprised that Christopher Daniels makes the list and none of the above guys do?
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denverpunk
The Rowdy One
Posts 2433
Registered 6-27-2007 Location Mile-Hi Member Is Offline Mood: Stoked
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| posted on 8-4-2016 at 05:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Peteman77
I'm surprised at some exclusions from the entire list. I don't think I saw Sgt. Slaughter, Paul Orndorff, Honky Tonk Man or Booker T on
the list. I just don't think some of the guys in the lower half rate higher than some of those guys. I mean I understand it's all
subjective, but I'm surprised that Christopher Daniels makes the list and none of the above guys do?
Totally agree about Booker T, who should be Top 50. Orndorff too, but Honky Tonk.Man might not make my Top 200.
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Wickedfrost
I LOVE RVD 
Posts 820
Registered 2-14-2006 Member Is Offline Mood: Cranky!
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| posted on 8-4-2016 at 06:31 PM |
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Bruno at 30 is idiotic - and his justification is ridiculous. Bruno may not be top 5 - but top 10 worthy and certainly top 15.
Stay wet my friends.
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merc
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1086
Registered 2-23-2006 Location New England Member Is Offline Mood: Really FN bad
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| posted on 8-4-2016 at 06:54 PM |
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Thanks GEG! I'll work hard to make JBL a merc wannabe! I hope I'm more historically accurate than JBL...
The Andre discussion is a good one. Candidly Paul Wight is the best big man I have ever seen. When Andre was 300lbs he hit the occasional drop kick.
But he was more about 1�3 handicap matches. Wight was hitting 360 top rope moonsaults at the same age. Today, Wight maintains a greater moveset and
mobility than Andre had at the same age.
The difference is in the business. Vince Sr. managed (real life) Andre's availability and place on the card. He never let him get stale, and
fans bought into titles are Andre's for the taking, he doesn't want to stay put so he doesn't try. Even in the North East, where
his manager was, Andre was a 3 month attraction then off to another territory.
Wight, first as The Giant, then as TBS has been stuck and unable to "stay fresh". I think that's why so many heel/face turns. If the poor
guy had the ability to stay fresh, I think he might be in everyone's top 5.
Shifting gears, The Rock, SCSA - not long enough as top draw to be top 10 players. Most of us can come up with 20 guys that were at/near top for a
decade or more. I'd sift through those first.
The solid top 10 worthy I see on this list:
Flair, Hogan, Andre
Worth the discussion:
Cena, Rhodes
Fanboy wanna be's
Sting, HBK, UT,
I type that having grown up a HUGE Dusty fan and would plug Sting in as on of the guys I most enjoyed pre NWO. Dusty could sell out arenas, my
primary data point, but for most of them they were smaller venues. Cena is close for me.
Embarrassingly missing:
Ed Strangler Lewis, Bruno Sammartino, Lou Thesz
All three were top card draws for more than a decade and usually guaranteed a full building/fair ground.
Should be in the discussion:
Verne Gagne (I'm not a fan), Buddy Rodgers, Jim Londos
The prime of all was before me. The Chicago archives have great film of Gagne & Rogers and the style of the day. Londos is more on historical info.
He was a national draw, in the way Ed Lewis was, just not as long.
Stop by the old fart forum once in a while. I try to find something cool once a month to post.
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." D.
Adams
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punkerhardcore
American Dream
Posts 7730
Registered 7-16-2005 Member Is Offline Mood: Lickable
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| posted on 8-4-2016 at 08:21 PM |
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Are you fucking kidding me? You don't think Shawn belongs in the top ten, but Andre does? I won't even bother debating that, because
it's so mind boggling insane, that it would be like trying to convince a hardcore creationist about the existence of evolution.
I do firmly believe this, though, and I'm not joking at all- if you swapped Andre the Giant and The Great Khali's places in wrestling
history, then everyone now would be heralding Khali as one of the best of all time. They were basically the same damn thing.
Is everyone mad here?
Of course they are, and you are too... otherwise, you wouldn't have come here.
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