CCharger
The Great One  
Posts 3628
Registered 7-21-2010 Member Is Offline Mood: Covfefe
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| posted on 5-5-2017 at 01:43 PM |
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Health Care in America
As the GOP-created health care plan known as AHCA works its way slowly through the legislature, I thought it would be interesting to see how some
OOsters would be affected by any changes - good or bad.
Are some you on ObamaCare now? If the ACHA is passed and ObamaCare is repealed what, if anything, do you stand to lose?
Do any of you work in the health care field and can provide any first person perspective on this?
If you have been hurt by ObamaCare and look forward to a replacement, can you share your views and experience?
If you live in a country with single payer plans or socialized medicine (Canada and the UK come to mind), how do you feel about your system? How do
you view the American health care system?
If you're dissatisfied with the current arrangement, what alternatives do you suggest?
The reason I'm asking is that my Facebook feed (which admittedly is dominated by my liberal friends) has been filled with outrage and disgust at
the House vote yesterday. I, myself, am horrified by what I view as the blatant attempt to give the rich a tax cut while simultaneously reducing
benefits for sick and/or poor people.
What is your experience?
ETA: This is one of the few times I wish merc was still around to give us a more conservative perspective. Hopefully, some of our more
Republican-leaning folks can weigh in.
[Edited on 5-5-2017 by CCharger]
[Edited on 5-5-2017 by CCharger]
"She was warned. She was given an explanation. Nevertheless, she persisted."
"The powers of the president to protect our country are very substantial and will not be questioned."
--- Stephen Miller, Trump senior White House advisor, Feb. 12, 2017
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OOMike
The Great One
Posts 3692
Registered 1-3-2002 Location Columbus, OH Member Is Offline Mood: same ol same ol
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| posted on 5-5-2017 at 04:55 PM |
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I am on my employer provided health plan, my wife is on her employer's plan as well, so at first this does not impact us directly. My wife has
Type 2 diabetes and could have a problem if she needs to switch jobs or plans. (Not sure if she can be kicked off her insurance for the pre-existing
condition or not, don't want to think about that.)
However, my two sons, are both suffering from CF, and have to be on Medicaid, my wife is pretty sure that they won't lose it since they are
terminal and considered disabled, but the cut in funding might impact their level of care.
My wife's youngest sister is about to turn 26 and will be moving off her mom's insurance. She had a bout of Thyroid cancer last year and
may have problems getting affordable insurance once she has to go on her own.
So I am a little nervous.
As for perspective from the health care field, my wife works at a OSU Hospital and obviously they were all talking about it, and the consensus was
that it was going to make things a whole lot worse.
2017 where Nazis are defended and being against Fascism is a bad thing.
Prejudices are rarely overcome by argument; not being founded in reason they cannot be destroyed by logic � Tryon Edwards
Never let the facts interfere with a good rant.
The only OO columnist that has never written a column.
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Quentil
Showstopper
Posts 743
Registered 5-13-2003 Location Saratoga Springs, NY Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 5-5-2017 at 06:34 PM |
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My own personal experience with Obamacare is a positive one. I live in upstate NY, which generally is a Republican stronghold. My representative,
Elise Stefanik of NY's 21st, voted yes on the ACHA yesterday, justifying it as a way to 'lower costs while increasing choice and
access'. For the record, in the last election, she won the seat with 66% of the vote (The Democrat got 29%, the Green party got 5%).
Mostly the reaction in upstate NY from the local papers and feeds that i've looked at today has been one of shock and outrage. 1 in 3 people in
her/my district (A bit over 230,000) use Obamacare subsidies and/or are on Medicaid. I'm not sure why people thought she'd vote no, as
she's shown no inclination to being anything other than a Harvard-educated Republican shill who dresses in overalls and flannels a lot at town
hall meetings where her people often personally pick who is allowed to attend (hint: Not Democrats), and who threatened to call police on Democrats
protesting outside of her office, accusing them of being paid plants who were bused in from "all over the country." When confronted on this with
evidence showing that her claims were incorrect, she stopped attending her town hall meetings entirely. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Ahem.
Anyhow.
Random numbers you might find interesting:
New York is one of the biggest supporters of the ACA overall. For the 2017 signup window, it has "14 carriers offering plans for 2017; 3.6 million
enrolled for 2017, including Medicaid, Essential Plan, QHPs, and Child Health Plus."
(Source: https://www.healthinsurance.org/new_york-state-health-insurance-exchange/)
Here are the potential losses in coverage for NY State:
(Source: http://acasignups.net/17/03/22/how-many-would-lose-coverage-clean-repeal-vs-trumpcare)
So assuming things stay as is, 2.2 million of the 3.6 million New Yorkers insured with the ACA will lose their insurance under TrumpCare. ~64,000
from the district that I live in (out of ~230k who use the ACA in some way) will lose coverage, or about 28% of the insured people using the current
ACA, and about 9% of the entire population of the legislative district.
More personal take:
Since the introduction of Obamacare, this area's medical facilities have seen huge upgrades. Everything has been centralized insofar as medical
records, and all of it is electronic now. Rather than the old system where you'd have to physically go to a doctor you went to 15yrs ago to get
records for a broken arm, then deliver them to your current doctor, all of it is now instantly available. Some argue that's a violation of your
privacy, but I argue that if it comes to my health, that's saved time and effort for everyone, which hopefully allows more time for the actual
helping people get better part of it all.
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CCharger
The Great One
Posts 3628
Registered 7-21-2010 Member Is Offline Mood: Covfefe
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| posted on 5-5-2017 at 06:57 PM |
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I grew up in that area. I know Stefanik VERY well. She is a rich, private school snob posing as a working class populist.
Here a quote from another Republican who voted for the ACHA, Rep. Thomas Garrett (VA):
"...when asked about the people whose lives were saved by Obamacare, and who were protesting the new bill, he said he was unconcerned because
'none of those people did vote for me.'"
The man literally said I don't care about the health and well-being of people who disagree with me politically. 
[Edited on 5-5-2017 by CCharger]
"She was warned. She was given an explanation. Nevertheless, she persisted."
"The powers of the president to protect our country are very substantial and will not be questioned."
--- Stephen Miller, Trump senior White House advisor, Feb. 12, 2017
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bopol
Showstopper 
Posts 748
Registered 1-18-2013 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 5-6-2017 at 01:30 AM |
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I doubt it will affect me in the short term. I have a job that provides insurance for myself and my kids. My wife has a job that provides insurance
for her. If I lose my job, myself and the kids can get health insurance through my wife and if she loses hers, she can get it through mine.
Currently, this arrangement is the cheapest (my wife gets hers for free, but it is rather expensive for dependents).
Personally, I think it will be very bad for the country as a lot of people won't get care or will end up waiting and get expensive care that
they can't pay for, either bankrupting hospitals or (like in the past) they will pass the expenses onto those who do pay.
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Paddlefoot
Rocco Rock of Jabroni 
Posts 7665
Registered 1-19-2008 Location Stupid Idiot Section Member Is Offline Mood: ChinceMcMahon
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| posted on 5-6-2017 at 02:56 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
If you live in a country with single payer plans or socialized medicine (Canada and the UK come to mind), how do you feel about your system? How do
you view the American health care system?
Canada is pretty good for the most part. We have our issues, most of which seem to be about emergency rooms getting swamped because the provincial
governments (that control the system) have done a terrible job on expanding services to match population growth. There are more than a few emergency
room horror stories but a lot of them seem to stem from someone's family panicking at having to wait and going from hospital to hospital and the
sick/injured person dying because of their impatience. Our other major problem is the ridiculous amount of time people have to wait for certain
non-emergency surgeries, like for multiple months to over a year sometimes. We do lose a lot of surgeons to the US as they chase the greater money
they can get there, thanks almost to our provincial governments choosing health care as their primary target for budget cuts as the politicians
bravely play Austerity Hero to make themselves look good to the type of old farts who think society should be exactly the same today as it was back in
the 1950's.
As for the US system, as a Canadian I look at it with abject horror and disgust. That it's gone this far is insanity, all because GOP
politicians have convinced too many gullible people that it's better for them to pay three or four times as much per year for private insurance
as opposed to taxes for a single-payer system. I'd need more details but I know for a fact you're paying more per capita for your system
than any of the single-payer countries. As usual it's terrific for the wealthy but also it's an absolute atrocity for anyone unfortunate
enough to be outside of the umbrella. Getting sick or injured shouldn't mean that you end up bankrupt for life if you don't have the
insurance to pay for it. It's an obscenity. Or, more accurately, it's just another obscenity brought to you by the same salesmen that have
given you privatized schools, privatized utilities, privatized prisons, and privatized mercenary forces providing the "security" in war zones.
quote:
If you're dissatisfied with the current arrangement, what alternatives do you suggest?
The single payer system has it's flaws. I advocate a mixed system designed to take the stress off the public system, especially to reduce
waiting times. This has been successfully done here in parts of Canada where things like diagnostic services (MRI, CAT-scans, x-rays) and
blood-testing has been partially privatized. It's helped a lot. If someone has the money to go to a private clinic then do it. It speeds up both
your own time as well as freeing up your spot in the line for someone in the public line-up to get seen sooner.
Overall the systems need to be studied and compared to arrive at the best one. Canada compares itself to the US too much. What we should be doing is
learning from Japan, Germany, or Australia instead because the US is far too much of an outlier for a good comparison. I don't even dispute the
concept that the more well-off are going to get better service because that's the way it is everywhere else too, even in the single-payer
systems. The problem that needs to be solved is providing service that doesn't bankrupt someone without insurance, not to bring in some
rattletrap of a Sovietized system where everyone without exception stands in some grim depressing waiting line like they did at the old GUM department
store in Moscow. Kick out the greedheads on the right that look at it entirely for profit as well as the weirdos on the left who want to impose some
strict egalitarian system that never budges and maybe all the normies in the middle can finally create something that works best for most.
You know, everyone says it's not supposed to make sense, like that's the whole point, dude. And I'm just saying, you know,
that's like an excuse for lazy storytelling. Just don't sell me shite and tell me it's gold, all right? I might be stoned, but
I'm not high. You know what I mean?
- Cassidy from Preacher, commenting on The Big Lebowski and/or professional wrestling
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Quentil
Showstopper
Posts 743
Registered 5-13-2003 Location Saratoga Springs, NY Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 5-6-2017 at 08:31 AM |
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To be fair, the Australian medical system is very much how you describe Canada's as being as. From my experience living there, I saw that it
was very easy to go to a local clinic to have an ear ache or sprained ankle looked at. And free. You simply go to one of the assigned clinics, fill
out a couple of pages of paperwork, wait 1-3 hours, and you'll be seen. And some stuff that in the US would require a prescription was
available over the counter there. And fairly affordable. That said...
You had to usually pay $20 for a prescription. That's actually a fair bit more than the poor in the US pay for them. And it can easily
escalate beyond the ability of most folks to pay in the case of a prolonged sickness. There's some safety nets in place for this scenario, but
the paperwork and such can get to be quite extensive.
For what it's worth, private insurance is still widely available there, and is highly preferred over the universal system. The coverage is
better, the drugs are more plentiful and cheaper, and the waiting lines/lists are much shorter. The last thing is kind of a big thing.
If you were on government insurance in Australia, at least when I was there, have fun in getting dental work done or any sort of invasive surgery on
any realistic timeframe unless you are lucky. The waiting periods for things for those on the gov't system could be ridiculous. Often, if you
had a problem tooth, you'd have to wait months before getting just the first meet and greet appointment. If you needed surgery, expect twice
that period for many things. As a result, a lot of Australians that I knew don't even bother trying to get a whole swath of minor-moderate
medical things done. Or they go to the emergency room, much like you have in the States. And while the visit is usually covered, it winds up
creating huge logjams at said emergency room at times far above what you'd normally see in a generic middle-sized American hospital. But hey,
it usually was free, so yeah. I dunno. probably a net positive over the waiting periods.
Some things, like geography, do seem to come into play as well. In Australia, pretty much 95% of the population lives in six cities. It makes it a
lot easier to have a medical infrastructure when they are all focused in a handful of spots for an entire population. When a population is spread out
in hundreds or more clusters over thousands of miles, it sometimes makes things a more expensive.
Oh, as one final interesting thought from my experiences in Aussieland: Don't get hurt in 97% of Australia. There is nothing there to help
you. If you are outside the main cities, medical coverage drops to almost nothing, and you're going to wait hours just to have help arrive.
And then hours more being transported to somewhere you can be treated.
[Edited on 5-6-2017 by Quentil]
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Flash
The Great One
Posts 3464
Registered 4-22-2005 Location Ontario, Canada Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 5-6-2017 at 09:40 AM |
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I think when you have a public system like you do here in Canada there is always going to be a bit more people clogging up hospital wait rooms with
colds and scrapes... even if those cases are pushed to the bottom of the list it still clogs things up... I'm sure it happens with a pay system
in the US to an extent as well, but with a bit of skin in the game maybe it weeds out a few people?
Yeah it can take 3 hours to see a doctor when you break your arm, but the dying in the waiting room or for a surgery cases are news simply because
they don't happen that long. I'm young and healthy enough that elective procedures aren't a concern to me yet, but certainly
recognize that this is an area where we can improve simply because in some cases I would imagine it could save us a lot more in the long run... for
example my Grandmother has a friend who has been waiting like 2 years for a hip procedure; if she had that she'd likely be more active, which in
turn would mean she probably won't need to go to the doctors for worse hip issues, back pain, obesity, and any number of other things that can
pile up.
There are definitely other issues with wait times... I (I mean a friend of mine.... yeah, that's the ticket....) had some blood in my (er...
his) stool/toilet a month or so ago; got into my GP the next day and while thanks to a finger in my butt both me and my GP are relatively confident it
was just a haemorrhoid, I still haven't heard from the specialist he referred me to just to be on the safe side... but hey, maybe my perception
that OMG a hideous cancer could be growing inside me and I must know now might be misplaced is completely unfounded... that why is it taking so long
to know FOR SURE still makes you feel like maybe there are some flaws in our current system when the reality is that maybe if there is a problem a
couple months won't make a difference, or that maybe my GP already ruled things out with 90% certainty and is just playing it safe... not that
I'm really in all that big of a hurry to have a camera shoved up my butt.
The American system is, in my opinion, a major factor in why the USA can't be called the greatest country... or where it falls short of trying
to achieve those lofty goals that is often espoused (for the record all countries have problems)... hearing what insurance company lobbyists spend
daily on lobbying senators/congressmen to keep things status quo is offensive when you think about all the procedures that you hear about getting
denied... or that medical costs are the number one cause of bankruptcies in the USA... medical care should be a basic human right, and while you could
never have a completely equal playing field for all of your citizens, those are some pretty big cracks that a lot of people are falling through.
I'm proud to say that here in Ontario a bill was just passed providing drug coverage for all people under age 25; so I'm happy to say it
would appear that we are doubling down on the idea of a public system at least in Ontario... yeah it's just helping children/youth (people on
public/government disability already get free drugs) it's a big step in the right direction.
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Quentil
Showstopper
Posts 743
Registered 5-13-2003 Location Saratoga Springs, NY Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 5-6-2017 at 07:16 PM |
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In the states, it depends on which state you are in as well. It varies wildly. New York, as an example, is a believer in the progressive ideology
far in excess to much of the rest of the country, and thus has a ton of supplemental programs in place to help people get insured, or at the least try
to help them pay down their medical debt. It adds to the taxes the residents pay, but overall the residents seem okay with that. Other states have
far more of a bare bones support for medical costs for their residents.
States like NY will likely add new laws to supplement and keep in place existing standards, along with new taxes to pay for them. States like
Mississippi will not. Thus, it will be cheaper to live there, but why the fuck would you want to? 
[Edited on 5-6-2017 by Quentil]
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denverpunk
The Rowdy One
Posts 2617
Registered 6-27-2007 Location Mile-Hi Member Is Offline Mood: Stoked
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| posted on 5-6-2017 at 09:27 PM |
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I can definitely see how this will probably play out. More liberal states will find ways to continue existing coverage. More conservative states will
expand services for those who can already afford it, while giving boxes of leeches to the poor, all while saying they deserve the leeches for being
poor. And don't forget the coathangers for all those evil women!
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Count Zero
The Rowdy One 
Posts 2304
Registered 1-29-2013 Location Canada East Member Is Offline Mood: fugazi
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| posted on 5-7-2017 at 07:05 AM |
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Things I Learned In This Thread: Australia covers DENTAL WORK???? That's bloody brilliant, if so.
One of my biggest gripes about Canadian Medicare is that "dentists" and "optometrists" are out-of-pocket expenses (unless you have blue
cross/insurance of some kind), and we can all hopefully agree that "teeth" and "eyeballs" are pretty important to a decent standard of living.
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