Multiple questions here...so multiple answers.

Is pro wrestling dead? No

Not a question but on the topic of young fans not knowing about ECW/WCW...there's an ENTIRE network dedicated to that stuff. It's easier than other to get in to OLDER stuff.

Is this simply a reflection of the cycle of boom and bust that wrestling goes through? No. What it is is the reality of network TV and the decline of money marks. There's no one person with complete control of a network who wants to be in the wrestling business. Combine that with the death of big time local promotions, and you don't get a local promotion doing as well a JCP (aka WCW in the NWA days) getting on to TBS.

Will any wrestling company outside of WWE ever make money again? You should check on Scott Keith's Wrestler Observer Flashback series to get a reminder of how much money was sunk on wrestling in the 80's. Or read/watch about ECW. Not a lot of people had a lot of success for an extended period running a wrestling promotion.

Are we approaching an era where the ONLY wrestling available to us will be in a WWE ring? No. There's so much stuff that's out there now if you want it. ROH, NJPW, and Evolve.

What has happened is that the chances for another Monday Night Wars is over. And much like how the NHL swallowing up the WHL, or the NBA taking over the ABA...Vince buying WCW and ECW didn't kill off pro-wrestling. There's other stuff out there. But what it did do is establish itself as the world leader, and made it next to impossible for anybody to compete on that level.

But who knows...maybe the next Snapchat level success will be from a kid who is a die hard wrestling fan, who has no problems wasting money on TNA, ROH, or a new promotion and PAYING to have his show aired on a decent network.

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Originally posted by CCharger
Pro Wrestling Gurerrila is reportedly doing poorly financially. They only recently started turning a profit and now their primary moneymaker - DVD sales - begins to bottom out.

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Thoughts:

1) The WWE has done an excellent job with being a monopoly. For 90% of Americans, WWE = pro wrestling. If you like em, great, if you don't, most don't look for alternatives.

2) TNA has killed the cable business for other wrestling companies. I mean, there are shows on cable about dating naked and somehow the cable networks are too good to put wrassin on their network. They don't believe it'll get ratings so it doesn't happen.

3) For the people that like wrestling but not WWE, there was the great indies of the 00s, but all of them (maybe not PWG) feel very stale right now.

4) The good indy talent is getting sucked into the WWE system faster through NXT. El Generico was a top indy star, but he spent 3 years in NXT (one of those years, he was hurt) instead of going to the main roster fairly quickly. Now, you have young indy stars getting signed and spending a lot of time in NXT instead of being the star of a lesser promotion. The result is the indies are worse off AND NXT becomes the new outlet for those that like wrestling and not WWE.

5) Making money. The model of generating revenue through DVD is drying up. iPPVs would seem to be the way to go, but, as fans of ROH can attest to, fuck one of those up through no fault of your own and you kill the business. To me, the best possibility may be the one Chikara is trying where you have your own 'network', but I think the shows have to get on the network fast enough so that fans avoid spoilers and can enjoy them as fresh shows.

6) Finally, there is no lack of sports to watch. I think the appeal of wrestling in the territory days would be watching a sporting event and some of the biggest territory would be cities of decent size that lacked major sports teams (Memphis, Portland, Calgary, etc.). Now these mid-sized cities do have major sports teams through expansion and also college sports have gotten bigger. So, any Tuesday night, you can probably find three or four events on cable as opposed to the old days when you might be able to listen to a baseball game on the transistor radio. In that case, I can see why local carny wrestling is on the outs.

It's still the staple it always was in Mexico. Here in countries like Honduras, the AAA and CMLL are almost interchangeable with WWE when it comes to discussions about wrestling.

As much as it bugs me to say this (for reasons I don't really have the time to expound upon in great detail here & now), I think wrestling is transforming from "the wrestling business" to "the wrestling industry".

Which means it's growing, but ultimately will become more about the bottom-line: dollars and cents, demographics, metrics, etceteratrics. They will be involved, for hypothetical example, in studying minute-by-minute breakdowns to see what parts of the match worked best. Then determining how they can incorporate that into the product on a more consistent basis in order to provide the optimal return-on-investment per WWE Universe Member Dollar Spent. Or something.

Pro wrestling in the UK is booming right now. Between the local indies (in my case, Kamikazee Pro) who hold 1-2 shows a month within a 20 minute drive of my house, and usually book a big name star or two (Abyss is at a show at my local university next week, D-Lo was here a few weeks ago), the more nationally known indies like Rev Pro (where ZSJ recently took on Kurt Angle - YouTube it); and an increasing number of speaking engagements (We've just had Rey Mysterio, Sting and Heyman, Nash is coming soon)... It's definitely NOT dying.

What are you kvetching aboot? Pro wrestling is fine just fine.

Hard to say that it's dead when it still makes money, as the quarterly conference calls from WWE show. The decline of certain promotions, with WCW/ECW/TNA being the most glaring examples in recent memory, has nothing to do with the overall profitability of the business. It's almost entirely with the fact those companies were/are run horribly by their management and that they reach a point where even the relative quality of the in-ring product isn't enough to overcome the bad business decisions their owners/managers/bookers keep making. Japan and Mexico have promotions that have existed as long as WWF/E and apparently they keep thriving so I'll use them as examples, along with WWE, that if the ownership/management has a good grasp of the basic business essentials then they're going to survive and do well.

Anyone using TV ratings or PPV buys as their main evidence that the business is dying isn't paying attention to the new reality. The internet, especially WWE Network, has changed everything. Maybe RAW isn't getting the ratings it did during Attitude but then again no other program is either, not in a 500 channel TV market where huge numbers of viewers all across the board for all programming have given up TV altogether and view all of their preferred programs online. Comparing now to the height of the ratings during Monday Night Wars without acknowledging the basic changes in the overall viewing environment pretty much renders the theory that "wrestling is dying out" as a failure.

On the contrary, I'd say pro wrestling is the most alive its been in 10-15 years.

Yes, it is true that the "middle sized" promotions, TNA and ROH especially, are not in such good shape, but elsewhere and in the smaller "regional" promotions, things are buzzing.

I'm in the UK, and I would either go to a WWE event or one of the smaller indies (ICW being top of the list) - but pass on TNA's tours, because they simply don't appeal.

WWE give you the show, the spectacle, and now more than in years, some quality entertainment (house shows don't suffer from the bullshit written TV does, so you see how good the guys really are)

Smaller indies serve up hungry performers, doing it because they love it or because they are giving it everything to make it to the bigtime one day, and if you want to, you can easily catch up on relevant angles via youtubes or the we before the show.

It's that middle ground thats faltering, but pro wrestling is far from dead.

[Edited on 7-29-2016 by SpiNNeR72]

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Originally posted by CCharger
I too would like to hear from our foreign OOsters on what the wrestling scene is like in their countries.

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This should be a poll. I vote mabey.

Not being an MMA fan by any means, I have noticed that its rise in popularity has kind of...modified the way I view wrestling. Having a sport where guys and girls are REALLY trying to beat the shit out of each other become so prevalent just kinda makes it jump out that much more when, say, a guy is lying prone for 30 seconds prior to Neville hitting a Red Arrow or Kevin Owens launches a dude in the air for Owens-Bomb. I'm not saying it's a negative by any means...just reiterates the fact that it really is a performance art that we are viewing.

That said, on the "popularity" side of things, I've been watching for 30 years so I'm pretty much entrenched at this point, for better or worse. For those who haven't been watching that long, the predetermined side of it may be enough to turn them off of the product in a "Man, that stuff is so FAKE, I'm going to watch UFC!" kind of way.

[Edited on 7-29-2016 by gobbledygooker]

That's a fair criticism. As an American, I guess it would be expected I'd take that perspective. I too would like to hear from our foreign OOsters on what the wrestling scene is like in their countries.

This isn't a criticism, but I noticed how you included mainly U.S. companies. Here in Murca, you're probably right, especially given WWE's habit of poaching top talent and given that the goal of most wrestlers is to make it to WWE. I don't know how well Mexican, Japanese, or European promotions are or aren't doing, though. I'd be curious to know.

[Edited on 7-29-2016 by denverpunk]

I was talking with a friend who is very knowledgeable in the wrestling business. He said that pro wrestling as we know it is a dying industry.

He is of the opinion that there are people who are WWE fans and those who are wrestling fans. Many WWE fans will buy WWE PPVs and merch but would never consider attending an indie show or following Japan or ROH or TNA. He says that WWE is an industry unto itself - outside of the pro wrestling business. Many younger WWE fans do not remember WCW or ECW. Meanwhile, non-WWE wrestling is a niche market and niche markets rarely make much money.

Look at the top inide promotions in America. TNA's financial issues are well-documented. They are on life support. Ring of Honor, for all it's critical acclaim among hard core fans, lags behind in ratings behind the moribund TNA. Pro Wrestling Gurerrila is reportedly doing poorly financially. They only recently started turning a profit and now their primary moneymaker - DVD sales - begins to bottom out. Lucha Underground doesn't know if it will be renewed year to year.

My point is that outside of WWE (which is simply in a different category) pro wrestling is struggling financially. Independent wrestling sees smaller and smaller crowds and smaller and smaller financial returns.

Is this simply a reflection of the cycle of boom and bust that wrestling goes through? Will any wrestling company outside of WWE ever make money again?

Are we approaching an era where the ONLY wrestling available to us will be in a WWE ring?