CCharger
The Rowdy One
Posts 2804
Registered 7-21-2010 Member Is Offline Mood: Obtuse
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posted on 7-29-2016 at 02:38 PM |
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Is Pro Wrestling Dead?
I was talking with a friend who is very knowledgeable in the wrestling business. He said that pro wrestling as we know it is a dying industry.
He is of the opinion that there are people who are WWE fans and those who are wrestling fans. Many WWE fans will buy WWE PPVs and merch but would
never consider attending an indie show or following Japan or ROH or TNA. He says that WWE is an industry unto itself - outside of the pro wrestling
business. Many younger WWE fans do not remember WCW or ECW. Meanwhile, non-WWE wrestling is a niche market and niche markets rarely make much
money.
Look at the top inide promotions in America. TNA's financial issues are well-documented. They are on life support. Ring of Honor, for all
it's critical acclaim among hard core fans, lags behind in ratings behind the moribund TNA. Pro Wrestling Gurerrila is reportedly doing poorly
financially. They only recently started turning a profit and now their primary moneymaker - DVD sales - begins to bottom out. Lucha Underground
doesn't know if it will be renewed year to year.
My point is that outside of WWE (which is simply in a different category) pro wrestling is struggling financially. Independent wrestling sees smaller
and smaller crowds and smaller and smaller financial returns.
Is this simply a reflection of the cycle of boom and bust that wrestling goes through? Will any wrestling company outside of WWE ever make money
again?
Are we approaching an era where the ONLY wrestling available to us will be in a WWE ring?
When it Reigns, it bores.
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denverpunk
The Rowdy One
Posts 2442
Registered 6-27-2007 Location Mile-Hi Member Is Offline Mood: Stoked
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posted on 7-29-2016 at 03:55 PM |
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This isn't a criticism, but I noticed how you included mainly U.S. companies. Here in Murca, you're probably right, especially given
WWE's habit of poaching top talent and given that the goal of most wrestlers is to make it to WWE. I don't know how well Mexican,
Japanese, or European promotions are or aren't doing, though. I'd be curious to know.
[Edited on 7-29-2016 by denverpunk]
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CCharger
The Rowdy One
Posts 2804
Registered 7-21-2010 Member Is Offline Mood: Obtuse
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posted on 7-29-2016 at 04:30 PM |
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That's a fair criticism. As an American, I guess it would be expected I'd take that perspective. I too would like to hear from our foreign
OOsters on what the wrestling scene is like in their countries.
When it Reigns, it bores.
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gobbledygooker
Sister Act 2
Posts 9098
Registered 12-17-2002 Location Charlotte, NC Member Is Offline Mood:
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posted on 7-29-2016 at 04:58 PM |
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Not being an MMA fan by any means, I have noticed that its rise in popularity has kind of...modified the way I view wrestling. Having a sport where
guys and girls are REALLY trying to beat the shit out of each other become so prevalent just kinda makes it jump out that much more when, say, a guy
is lying prone for 30 seconds prior to Neville hitting a Red Arrow or Kevin Owens launches a dude in the air for Owens-Bomb. I'm not saying
it's a negative by any means...just reiterates the fact that it really is a performance art that we are viewing.
That said, on the "popularity" side of things, I've been watching for 30 years so I'm pretty much entrenched at this point, for better
or worse. For those who haven't been watching that long, the predetermined side of it may be enough to turn them off of the product in a "Man,
that stuff is so FAKE, I'm going to watch UFC!" kind of way.
[Edited on 7-29-2016 by gobbledygooker]
"Hulk Hogan have the sex with some dumb bitch on the TV. The girl smart if she make the $$ from his bald ass but she also desperate to have sex with
the howdy doody like Hulk Hogan. He worse than Mel Gibson and I think now %10000 he prove he have grasshopper dick and raisin balls." - The Iron
Sheik
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Matte
"Family Man"
Posts 8703
Registered 12-16-2008 Member Is Offline Mood: #BROKEN
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posted on 7-29-2016 at 05:11 PM |
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This should be a poll. I vote mabey.
"I'm a professional. I know exactly what I'm doing." - Jeff Hardy
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Planet Starbucks
Creepy Little Bastard
Posts 78
Registered 1-28-2013 Location England Member Is Offline Mood: Medicated
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posted on 7-29-2016 at 05:50 PM |
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quote: Originally posted by CCharger
I too would like to hear from our foreign OOsters on what the wrestling scene is like in their countries.
Well, I can't claim to follow the indie scene over here in Britain to any great extent, but I'm certainly finding the new YouTube
promotion WCPW quite interesting. It's pretty much the first of its kind from what I can see, a promotion that has grown out of a YouTube
channel making wrestling vids of various types and becoming very popular.
They have signed the likes of Sandow, Rhodes and Angle to some dates and recently had Jay Lethal defend the ROH title on their first special event in
a very good match against CWC contender Noam Dar. Will be interesting to see how it progresses.
quote:
Originally posted by janerd75
If you want a vision of the WWE's future, imagine an overpushed Samoan stamping on a human face - forever. George Orwell, 2016 (sequel to 1984)
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SpiNNeR72
Showstopper
Posts 606
Registered 10-21-2006 Location Shetland Member Is Offline Mood: Amused!
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posted on 7-29-2016 at 06:39 PM |
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On the contrary, I'd say pro wrestling is the most alive its been in 10-15 years.
Yes, it is true that the "middle sized" promotions, TNA and ROH especially, are not in such good shape, but elsewhere and in the smaller
"regional" promotions, things are buzzing.
I'm in the UK, and I would either go to a WWE event or one of the smaller indies (ICW being top of the list) - but pass on TNA's tours,
because they simply don't appeal.
WWE give you the show, the spectacle, and now more than in years, some quality entertainment (house shows don't suffer from the bullshit written
TV does, so you see how good the guys really are)
Smaller indies serve up hungry performers, doing it because they love it or because they are giving it everything to make it to the bigtime one day,
and if you want to, you can easily catch up on relevant angles via youtubes or the we before the show.
It's that middle ground thats faltering, but pro wrestling is far from dead.
[Edited on 7-29-2016 by SpiNNeR72]
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Paddlefoot
Rocco Rock of Jabroni
Posts 5972
Registered 1-19-2008 Location Scarsguard Member Is OnlineMood: Finally Deleted
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posted on 7-29-2016 at 06:55 PM |
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Hard to say that it's dead when it still makes money, as the quarterly conference calls from WWE show. The decline of certain promotions, with
WCW/ECW/TNA being the most glaring examples in recent memory, has nothing to do with the overall profitability of the business. It's almost
entirely with the fact those companies were/are run horribly by their management and that they reach a point where even the relative quality of the
in-ring product isn't enough to overcome the bad business decisions their owners/managers/bookers keep making. Japan and Mexico have promotions
that have existed as long as WWF/E and apparently they keep thriving so I'll use them as examples, along with WWE, that if the
ownership/management has a good grasp of the basic business essentials then they're going to survive and do well.
Anyone using TV ratings or PPV buys as their main evidence that the business is dying isn't paying attention to the new reality. The internet,
especially WWE Network, has changed everything. Maybe RAW isn't getting the ratings it did during Attitude but then again no other program is
either, not in a 500 channel TV market where huge numbers of viewers all across the board for all programming have given up TV altogether and view all
of their preferred programs online. Comparing now to the height of the ratings during Monday Night Wars without acknowledging the basic changes in the
overall viewing environment pretty much renders the theory that "wrestling is dying out" as a failure.
You know, everyone says it's not supposed to make sense, like that's the whole point, dude. And I'm just saying, you know,
that's like an excuse for lazy storytelling. Just don't sell me shite and tell me it's gold, all right? I might be stoned, but
I'm not high. You know what I mean?
- Cassidy from Preacher, commenting on The Big Lebowski and/or professional wrestling
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janerd75
The Rowdy One
Posts 2708
Registered 1-28-2013 Location Enward Central Member Is Offline Mood: Bauce
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posted on 7-29-2016 at 07:46 PM |
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What are you kvetching aboot? Pro wrestling is fine just fine.
The science is settled: Fuck Everybody
Then Jean-Paul climbs into the ring and bleeds right through the tampon. - merc
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Gobshite
The Great One
Posts 3262
Registered 1-30-2004 Location Right here, in Birmingham, England!! Member Is Offline Mood:
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posted on 7-29-2016 at 09:50 PM |
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Pro wrestling in the UK is booming right now. Between the local indies (in my case, Kamikazee Pro) who hold 1-2 shows a month within a 20 minute drive
of my house, and usually book a big name star or two (Abyss is at a show at my local university next week, D-Lo was here a few weeks ago), the more
nationally known indies like Rev Pro (where ZSJ recently took on Kurt Angle - YouTube it); and an increasing number of speaking engagements
(We've just had Rey Mysterio, Sting and Heyman, Nash is coming soon)... It's definitely NOT dying.
I have six invites I can crash out for membership to pwtorrents.net - if you want one, U2U me!
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Count Zero
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1315
Registered 1-29-2013 Location Canada East Member Is Offline Mood: Universal
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posted on 7-30-2016 at 12:38 AM |
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As much as it bugs me to say this (for reasons I don't really have the time to expound upon in great detail here & now), I think wrestling is
transforming from "the wrestling business" to "the wrestling industry".
Which means it's growing, but ultimately will become more about the bottom-line: dollars and cents, demographics, metrics, etceteratrics. They
will be involved, for hypothetical example, in studying minute-by-minute breakdowns to see what parts of the match worked best. Then determining how
they can incorporate that into the product on a more consistent basis in order to provide the optimal return-on-investment per WWE Universe Member
Dollar Spent. Or something.
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First 9
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1938
Registered 1-22-2013 Member Is Offline Mood: Doing the Emma Dance
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posted on 7-30-2016 at 01:48 AM |
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It's still the staple it always was in Mexico. Here in countries like Honduras, the AAA and CMLL are almost interchangeable with WWE when it
comes to discussions about wrestling.
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bopol
Showstopper
Posts 585
Registered 1-18-2013 Member Is Offline Mood:
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posted on 7-30-2016 at 02:01 AM |
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Thoughts:
1) The WWE has done an excellent job with being a monopoly. For 90% of Americans, WWE = pro wrestling. If you like em, great, if you don't,
most don't look for alternatives.
2) TNA has killed the cable business for other wrestling companies. I mean, there are shows on cable about dating naked and somehow the cable
networks are too good to put wrassin on their network. They don't believe it'll get ratings so it doesn't happen.
3) For the people that like wrestling but not WWE, there was the great indies of the 00s, but all of them (maybe not PWG) feel very stale right now.
4) The good indy talent is getting sucked into the WWE system faster through NXT. El Generico was a top indy star, but he spent 3 years in NXT (one
of those years, he was hurt) instead of going to the main roster fairly quickly. Now, you have young indy stars getting signed and spending a lot of
time in NXT instead of being the star of a lesser promotion. The result is the indies are worse off AND NXT becomes the new outlet for those that
like wrestling and not WWE.
5) Making money. The model of generating revenue through DVD is drying up. iPPVs would seem to be the way to go, but, as fans of ROH can attest to,
fuck one of those up through no fault of your own and you kill the business. To me, the best possibility may be the one Chikara is trying where you
have your own 'network', but I think the shows have to get on the network fast enough so that fans avoid spoilers and can enjoy them as
fresh shows.
6) Finally, there is no lack of sports to watch. I think the appeal of wrestling in the territory days would be watching a sporting event and some of
the biggest territory would be cities of decent size that lacked major sports teams (Memphis, Portland, Calgary, etc.). Now these mid-sized cities do
have major sports teams through expansion and also college sports have gotten bigger. So, any Tuesday night, you can probably find three or four
events on cable as opposed to the old days when you might be able to listen to a baseball game on the transistor radio. In that case, I can see why
local carny wrestling is on the outs.
I only signed up so I can read the forum.
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CheMateo
Showstopper
Posts 687
Registered 1-9-2008 Location Charming, Ca. Member Is Offline Mood: Ponce De Leon
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posted on 7-30-2016 at 04:45 PM |
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quote: Originally posted by CCharger
Pro Wrestling Gurerrila is reportedly doing poorly financially. They only recently started turning a profit and now their primary moneymaker - DVD
sales - begins to bottom out.
Just curious where you came across these reports and when. I have not heard any chatter of PWG facing financial hardship lately or the their DVD model
had peaked. PWG has been on fire the last six years or so. I know it will have to end eventually.
I do think PWG would be better suited to have some sort of streaming or iPPV. But hey always claim some issue over contracts or no available space for
iPPV equipment.
Before 2010, PWG was facing financial issues and close to shutting down. Super Dragon put in a lot of his own money and Highspots did as well to turn
things around.
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bigfatgoalie
The Man
Posts 6252
Registered 1-16-2002 Location Stratusphere Member Is Offline Mood: Stratusfied
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posted on 7-30-2016 at 07:28 PM |
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Multiple questions here...so multiple answers.
Is pro wrestling dead? No
Not a question but on the topic of young fans not knowing about ECW/WCW...there's an ENTIRE network dedicated to that stuff. It's easier
than other to get in to OLDER stuff.
Is this simply a reflection of the cycle of boom and bust that wrestling goes through? No. What it is is the reality of network TV and the decline of
money marks. There's no one person with complete control of a network who wants to be in the wrestling business. Combine that with the death of
big time local promotions, and you don't get a local promotion doing as well a JCP (aka WCW in the NWA days) getting on to TBS.
Will any wrestling company outside of WWE ever make money again? You should check on
Scott Keith's Wrestler Observer Flashback series to get a
reminder of how much money was sunk on wrestling in the 80's. Or read/watch about ECW. Not a lot of people had a lot of success for an extended
period running a wrestling promotion.
Are we approaching an era where the ONLY wrestling available to us will be in a WWE ring? No. There's so much stuff that's out there now
if you want it. ROH, NJPW, and Evolve.
What has happened is that the chances for another Monday Night Wars is over. And much like how the NHL swallowing up the WHL, or the NBA taking over
the ABA...Vince buying WCW and ECW didn't kill off pro-wrestling. There's other stuff out there. But what it did do is establish itself as
the world leader, and made it next to impossible for anybody to compete on that level.
But who knows...maybe the next Snapchat level success will be from a kid who is a die hard wrestling fan, who has no problems wasting money on TNA,
ROH, or a new promotion and PAYING to have his show aired on a decent network.
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