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Author: Subject: OOfficial Ratings/Discussion Thread for: RAW (January 11, 2010)
OORick
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posted on 1-11-2010 at 06:45 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
OOfficial Ratings/Discussion Thread for: RAW (January 11, 2010)

OO Nation: All discussion pertaining to RAW (airing January 11, 2010) should be done in this thread. It will remain pinned at the top of the Current Events section for the remainder of the week. In discussing the program, we'd love it if you shared your numerical rating for the show (from a low of 0.0 to a high of 5.0, in any increment of one-tenth of a point). For full details on the ratings scale and how to join in on this informal "Battle of the Brands," please be sure to check out the OOfficial Guidelines for TV Ratings/Discussion Threads.

Tonight on RAW: No matches have been announced, but we know Mike Tyson is the Guest Host, which opens up a few doors... jokes that have already been made include ear-biting, Bella-assaulting, and Santino-impersonating-Joe-Glass... more likely: Tyson's just here to try to draw the attention of "legit fight fans" (who have a UFC Fight Night on Spike as alternative programming tonight), and no such shennanigans will take place... if WWE wants to throw a bone to Tyson's wrestling past, the one natural fit is for him to cross paths with Shawn Michaels (Tyson KO'ed HBK at the end of WM14 after having spent weeks pretending to be a DX fan)... if WWE has no interest in throwing that bone, then Chris Jericho will show up and get his ass punched out... John Cena will probably be front and center doing stuff, on the grounds that he was absent last week; this does not bode well for Sheamus, who has yet to really set the world on fire was WWE Champ... MVP is in line for a shot at Miz's US Title... the Diva's Title tourney will continue (Maryse and Gail Kim have already advanced)... and Bret Hart is widely expected to be taking the night off before returning to pick up his storyline NEXT week, so don't be counting on the Hitman to spruce things up...

The flOOr is yours, OO Nation. Let your voice be heard and your thoughts on Brand Supremacy be known. Don't wait till after 11pm to post, either. Pre-show previewing and prognosticating is certainly welcome. So discuss, debate, and rate!





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DKBroiler
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posted on 1-11-2010 at 07:11 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I still stand by my post from last week that HBK should superkick Tyson if only to see what would happen. I mean, is there really ANY chance he follows a script? This is a man with a tattoo on his face after all.

Actually check that... I just figured it out... Show vs Tyson Wrestlemania.

When doesn't an early year guest appearance by an athletic person end up with a match versus the Big Show at Wrestlemania? Isn't that the reason by Show has become bizarro-taker at Wrestlemania?





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posted on 1-11-2010 at 08:00 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
What is the storyline explanation of the Montreal Screwjob? It can't acknowledge that wrestling is fixed after all - Is it that Vince called for the bell because he didn't trust HBK could beat Bret fair and square?





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posted on 1-11-2010 at 08:20 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
They didn't really give one last week. And from what I can tell, they haven't ever other than in various books and such.





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theflammablemanimal
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posted on 1-11-2010 at 08:24 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I meant to mention it in the Raw thread, but Bret's reaction to the screwjob was gold for the WWE. The images of him spitting on Mcmahon and his obvious frustration make some great clips.
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posted on 1-11-2010 at 08:28 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by C.MontgomeryPunk
What is the storyline explanation of the Montreal Screwjob? It can't acknowledge that wrestling is fixed after all - Is it that Vince called for the bell because he didn't trust HBK could beat Bret fair and square?



Good question, and I'll try to answer it piece by piece.

"What is the storyline explanation of the Montreal Screwjob?"

At the time Vince was still just a commentator and many fans had no idea he was the guy in charge. When it happened it was such a cluster fuck that the best explanation was there really was no explanation. On live TV there was just a ton of nonsense going on and I recall being very confused as a 16 year old who learned of it the following morning. They never really acknowledged what Brett did to "screw Brett" in kayfabe terms and basically decided to break kayfabe completely for possibly the first time.

"It can't acknowledge that wrestling is fixed after all"

Once the "Wrestling With Shadows" documentary came out they had to. If you have never seen it then go grab a copy. After that point the defense basically became, "Listen! We know it's scripted... YOU KNOW IT'S SCRIPTED... Let's just pretend we don't know from here on out, ok?"

"Is it that Vince called for the bell because he didn't trust HBK could beat Bret fair and square?"

The storyline now is the "smart" story which is what actually happened. Bret was going to jump ship to WCW because his contract was up. Vince knew this and didn't want to get Medusa'd (she brought the WWF Woman's Belt to Nitro and trashed it) with his largest belt. Bret refused to drop the belt to HBK in Canada and told Vince that he would drop it in the states the next day. Vince didn't believe him and then the screwjob happened.

There was no glossing over it in retrospect. After "Wrestling With Shadows" it would have been pointless. Unlike how the WWE likes to revise history (Maryse breaks arm, out 3 months, comes back and is written to have been mentally unstable to have worked as an admittedly stupid example) they just kind of admitted that it all happened cause they broke script.





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drmuerto
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posted on 1-11-2010 at 08:45 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by theflammablemanimal
Bret's reaction to the screwjob was gold for the WWE. The images of him spitting on Mcmahon and his obvious frustration make some great clips.


Absolutely true. Especially in the context of that "Desire" video they made chronicling the history of the WWF with the Kid Rock balad. It's right at about 2:00. Newer wrestling fans need to watch this just as part of your general education.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKNjRIfqU3Y

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theflammablemanimal
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posted on 1-11-2010 at 09:16 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I was just thinking about those Desire videos last night. They were fantastic and I wish WWE would get back to doing them more often.

I don't see why it's so hard to understand the screwjob without breaking the 4th wall. The storyline could just be that Vince wanted Bret to lose, so he told the ref to win the bell costing Bret the chance to leave as champ. Case closed and works fine without exposing wrestling as fake.

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LuckyLopez
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posted on 1-11-2010 at 09:24 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Yeah, I don't see the problem. Vince screwed Bret. In story. He called for the bell and made him lose. End of story.

The full nuances of the story all exist on this side of the 4th wall and I think that makes it tough to explain to a new generation of fan, at least in kayfabe sense. "See, all those dozens of times Vince did much worse to someone else? Those were fake but this was real!" just doesn't fly as a storytelling device. So the story may lack all of its natural gravitas but at its simplest its still easy to tell from a kayfabe sense. Vince screwed Bret. Period.

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C.MontgomeryPunk
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posted on 1-11-2010 at 09:31 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by theflammablemanimal
I don't see why it's so hard to understand the screwjob without breaking the 4th wall. The storyline could just be that Vince wanted Bret to lose, so he told the ref to win the bell costing Bret the chance to leave as champ. Case closed and works fine without exposing wrestling as fake.


I agree. That should be the explanation, however it doesn't explain the "Bret screwed Bret" argument that has been used on wwe programming. I guess "Bret screwed Bret" could mean that by chosing to leave and turn his back on the wwe he really left McMahon with on other choice. Works for me.

For storyline purposes with HBK being involved, would he be admitting that he didn't think he could win clean?

Also wwe plays really lose with the fourth wall as you can't explain the Jericho vs Mickey Rourke storyline at all last WM otherwise. I mean Rourke played a wrestler in a movie, but that movie "exposed the business" so basing a kayfabe storyline around such a character/movie was a paradox.

[Edited on 1-11-2010 by C.MontgomeryPunk]





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posted on 1-12-2010 at 01:21 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I was all ready to not be too excited for RAW since Bret isn't going to be on (word on the gossip sites is that he won't be there tonight, but will be on next week's episode), until I got on here and was reminded that Mike Tyson was hosting. Color me excited again!
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posted on 1-12-2010 at 01:53 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Maybe he'll throw Vince to the tigers like he did with Omar.





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posted on 1-12-2010 at 01:59 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I doubt I'll see nearly as much action on RAW tonight as I just saw on Jersey Shore.
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posted on 1-12-2010 at 02:09 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
He will sing "In the Air Tonight" after someone like Santino urges him to do so.

Jillian will join him.

He will punch her and knock her out.

OK maybe not the last one.





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posted on 1-12-2010 at 02:21 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Matte
I doubt I'll see nearly as much action on RAW tonight as I just saw on Jersey Shore.


Goddammit don't you fucking provoke me man.





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posted on 1-12-2010 at 04:18 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Nothing of a show, with the most predictable ending I have seen.

Just shows Vince and WWE are better when there is someone against them... only bad news, last week the people against them were better than them.

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posted on 1-12-2010 at 04:24 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Not just last week, but this week, too, the UFC actually produced a solid card involving a good number of their Ultimate Fighter winners, one of which had actual title ramifications. In all honesty, reading the results on WWE.com, I'm shocked they had Tyson on the show for more than a segment, let alone two LIVE segments, after the fiasco that was the last two times he's had a mic in a WWF ring.





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posted on 1-12-2010 at 04:25 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Man for all the big words Jericho has he sure is a moron. :-)

There was a moment in that match when Tyson tossed HHH into the corner I wonder if HHH had a hint of fear....Tyson looked pretty damn scary.

Miz is Awesome

There was a jackass in the crowd tonight .... kept being a jackass and it was the same dude all night being a dick...thats not to say the show was great but he was being tooleriffic...its a word as Jericho :-). And to that Jackass blurting out attempted chant starters...fuck you man.

Its hard to take MVP as a face when he is boasting about being in prison for 9 years. I get what there going for...but really? I believe in second chances and all...but MVP cut a awkward face promo.

Miz is awesome

So is Maryse :-)

Show was lack luster tonight but it wasn't worst ever. Kingston seemed in over his head tonight... I think Swagger has more potential than Kingston...

WWE should hire Tyson....but give him a mouthpiece...I think he could sell some WWE PPV's..Hed be a awesome bodyguard for someone..till of course he loses it ...I dare someone to work stiff with him in the ring :-D.

Orton vs Sheamas? Royal Rumble? I will believe it when I see it.... unless of course Sheamus is going to go face.

WWE score tonight gets a 2.15 from me. Nothing spectatcular.

So lets recap..... Bret Hart last week, Mike Tyson.....Jon Heder and some dude from Nash bridges...really...man that sucks for them :-). Still Napoleon did rock....at the very least pair him with pedro...sheesh.

[Edited on 1-12-2010 by nobledictator]

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posted on 1-12-2010 at 04:39 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I'm in an awful mood and thought maybe that was the biggest reason I thought tonight was bland and pretty much completely ignorable. Maybe my mood had nothing to do with it.

There was nothing actively bad, just not much worth noting. Like RockyTop pointed out, if you didn't know Tyson was going to double-cross Jericho from the very second he offered to tag with him, then welcome to your first night of pro wrestling.

There were some decent things going on, though. Orton vs. Sheamus is pretty interesting in that I'm not exactly sure what's going to come out of it. The finals for the Divas tourney is shaping up to be Maryse vs. Gail which I suppose is good and Maryse calling Michael F. Cole out on not being able to pronounce her name was funny, but not nearly as unintentionally funny as Cole's reply: "well... uh... I took Spanish in high school". Well played you retarded fuck.

The highlight of the show for me, though, and the only part that commanded my attention for the entire segment was the Miz. After his promo I'm really tempted to argue he may be the best talker on roster, or at the very least in the top three. Great promo, solid counter-promo from MVP, just good stuff that proved to me these two guys have a future in the main event scene.

2.0 because the show as a whole was neither good nor bad, just... there.





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posted on 1-12-2010 at 04:50 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Miz really broke out tonight with that promo, man he sure has come a looong way from Real World.

Rest of the show was meh for me.





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posted on 1-12-2010 at 05:04 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nobledictator
Kingston seemed in over his head tonight


I was thinking the same thing. As much as I loved getting to see Kofi hang with the big boys (in the opening segment and in the match), he just seemed a little off tonight in the ring, at least in the beginning of the match. I don't know if it was nerves or what, but he seemed kind of off and sloppy.

As for the show, I thought it was fairly good. I really liked the opening segment, which is shocking since it involved both Orton and Cena. I know most haven't been impressed with Sheamus' title reign, but I think he's coming into his own as champ slowly but surely. He's pretty good on the mic and for a new guy, actually seems like he's not out of place with guys like Cena and Orton (which is something I couldn't say during CM Punk's first reign, as much as I love Punk). And I found the mild "You Screwed Shawn!" chant at Tyson pretty funny.

Speaking of which, tonight's show felt like it was in Canada or some other Bizarro World-like setting, what with the pro Orton, Miz, and Jericho chants.

I watched about five seconds of Alicia vs. Kelly Kelly.

Bourne/Henry vs. Legacy was about what you would expect. And it's almost comical how much of a jobber Evan Bourne is at this point.

You know, I'm actually starting to find it pretty damn funny now how Jericho keeps coming back on RAW. The guy has been "banned forever" twice in the last month, yet there he was again tonight. I'm looking forward to seeing how he might sneak back on next week.

Seriously, who the hell did Jack Swagger piss off?

As I talked about above, I thought the triple threat match started out pretty sloppy, but got better towards the end. But what the hell is up with Sheamus/Orton for the Rumble? With the way that the WWE likes to sometimes let midcarders into the title match at the Rumble (Hardcore Holly, Mark Henry, Jeff Hardy in his 2008 match), I was thinking Kofi really may have had a chance. I'll admit it's an interesting pairing and I'll be kind of curious to see how the feud is booked (not to mention I honestly thought Orton had zero chance of winning the match tonight), but I'd probably be more interested in it if Randy Orton didn't have a stranglehold on the WWE title scene for almost all of 2009 and here he is right back in the title picture two weeks into 2010.

I would like to already nominate Mike Tyson threatening to use Hornswaggle' s intestines as a jump rope and to reach up his nostrils and rip his brains out as the backstage promo of the year.

Agreeing with everyone, great stuff out of Miz tonight (and MVP too). That was a great promo and I'm surprised they gave both guys so much time. It actually makes the U.S. title seem kind of, I don't know, important.

Didn't pay attention to Eve vs. Katie, but I'm hoping for a Gail Kim/Marsye final (and I think it's plausible).

The Vince segment was completely pointless. I thought at least something was going to happen at the end.

As had been said, the Tyson swerve could be seen about a million miles away. Harmless enough segment, but it really didn't move anything forward, other than Michaels saying he wants an answer out of the Undertaker next (which I will be quite interested to see). Quick fantasy booking: Taker denies Michaels his rematch for whatever reason next week, so Michaels costs him the world title at the Rumble, thus setting up the match for Mania.

I gotta say that most of the in-ring stuff didn't really impress me tonight, but most of the promo stuff did, so I'll just go 2.5.

[Edited on 1-12-2010 by the goon]

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posted on 1-12-2010 at 06:18 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I'll give it a 2.0, although 1.5 of that goes to Tyson for threatening to eviscerate the midget. And Maryse deserves credit for being a lot better at the announcers table than she is in an after-match in-ring promo. Her English has come a long way from a year or so ago.

The rest was pure meh. Orton title shot. Yippee! Y2J = Y2Jobber, and it thoroughly sucks.

[Edited on 1-12-2010 by Paddlefoot]

[Edited on 1-12-2010 by Paddlefoot]





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posted on 1-12-2010 at 12:25 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Have to agree with the all the sentiment regarding Miz/MVP. That was probably the only time during RAW where I stopped what I was doing and actually paid attention. I've been a big Miz backer for quite some time, but for me the standout moment was MVP once he stripped down to the wifebeater and went off. THAT was the side of MVP I've been waiting to see. All of the "Baller" stuff has been annoying. Him trying to be a typical face is simply not believable. But this guy who is tough because of his past, while also acknowledging his mistakes and encouraging people not to be like him, that's the kind of face-like character that will be successful for him.

I was thinking during the Miz/MVP stuff that, while it went on for quite a while (I'd be curious to see a time total for that segment), it was not boring at all. I also found myself thinking during the last part of the showdown (before the physical confrontation), that THIS is what a main event interaction should be like. Miz is definitely in the top 3 on the mike. He is great at being a giant dick. He is the new Jericho. And at the risk of being called crazy, he is doing it better right now.

Also agree with the thoughts that most of the show was not horrible but generally forgettable. Like I said, the only time I really got sucked in was with MVP/Miz. Everything else I would glance periodically or not stay with for the duration of the segment.

The Orton chants were shocking. Not so much that it happened (there always seems to be a bit of a pro-Orton pocket in each crowd), but that it was so loud. I don't necessarily hate him like others, but I do find his lethargy in all aspects of his performance to be annoying. As a character, I don't mind him at all. At least Orton/Sheamus is new, although I find it hard to believe someone *coughCenacough* won't be added to that match before all is said and done.

Incidentally, am I the only one that hates 3-way matches?

I also don't really get the love for Maryse, although when I think about it I pretty much hate her because she's such a bitch every time I see her. So apparently she is doing a good job with her character. Too good in fact, because I have no interest in ever seeing her on my screen. That fuckin' hand flip pisses me off to no end, probably because I can think of a handful of chicks from high school that did the same goddamn thing.





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posted on 1-12-2010 at 02:09 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nobledictator
There was a moment in that match when Tyson tossed HHH into the corner I wonder if HHH had a hint of fear....Tyson looked pretty damn scary.


I know the moment in the match you're talking about and I thought the same. Especially since it looked like he was in good position to take a chomp out of HHH's ear.

Was it just me or is Tyson seeming more and more "Ali-esque" in his speech and mannerisms? Or it could just be whatever mental illness has been haunting him for the past 15 years. Either way, poor bastard does not seem to be in a good way, especially compared to that footage they kept showing of him from '98.

That Miz-MVP promo took me completely by surprise at how unbelievably awesome it was. I was not expecting that. Exemplary work from both men and possibly the best promo I've seen either of them cut.

As much as I love Melina, her injury might be the best thing to happen to the Raw womens division in a while. If we end up with Maryse vs. Gail Kim, I don't know what my reaction will be but humping my flatscreen isn't out of the question.

Wow, that was a whole lot of nothing regarding Vince. I didn't expect Bret to be on again this soon but I thought they'd at least do SOMETHING interesting. Vince standing in the ring and saying Bret won't be back doesn't count as interesting.

Lame ending, as has been mentioned. Some would say this moment had already happened, but I'm thinking that Hornswoggle joining DX was their "jumping the shark" moment. Time to disband the troops, I think. I can picture Shawn talking about it in 10 years on a documentary saying, "Well, when they put a midget in the group...that's when I knew it was time to end it."

EDIT - I guess a grade would be nice - 3.25. It kept my interest for the most part. But this is the time of year I always take a little more interest in the shows and they usually bring a little more, quality-wise.

[Edited on 1-12-2010 by gobbledygooker]





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posted on 1-12-2010 at 02:26 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Maybe it's just because I'm a Tyson mark, or maybe it's because I've never been a fan of Bret Hart, but whatever the case is I liked this episode much better then last weeks.

The Miz-MVP segment was WAY north of 4.0 and I actually think that the opening segment was too. On top of that HBK continuing to have a memory was well played. Lastly, the fact that Mike Tyson was all over the show was fantastic. Besides the fact that his back stage interactions were heavily edited I liked each of them.

About the only thing on the show that I thought was underwhelming was the Cena-Orton-Kofi match. Kofi seemed nervous and I'm not really sure what Orton was doing in during the opening segments of it. However the ending was suprising and I'm mildly intrigued by Orton vs Sheamus because I can think of many reasons why each can win at the Rumble.

I'm going to settle at 3.9 which is over a full point higher then I graded last week's show. A combination of Tyson and The Miz are the main factors in that rating.

EDITED TO ADD: I forgot one very minor gripe. Is the producer on meth? I think that a killer move like a mid rope DDT would be slightly more impactful if we could see it instead of cutting back and forth between Orton's face 75 times a minute. Also they ruined Tyson's punch and MVP's kick with bad camera angles.

[Edited on 1-12-2010 by DKBroiler]





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