RockyTopWrestling
rOOkie
Posts 28
Registered 12-19-2009 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 1-16-2010 at 04:07 AM |
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*Chris Benoit
(edited to fix Beniot to Benoit)
With a new decade upon us WWE can not help but to throw a bunch of remember the decade DVDs and programs at us. We have had the 10 years of RAW and
SmackDown! The best of the World title, On Demand has the best matches of the 2000s and so on, but on none of them are Chris Benoit. It only seems
fitting that like MLB we add an astrick(*) to all these projects with in fine print:
*excluding Chris Benoit, because he did something that was not right.
I am not in anyway supporting the killing of a child or a woman, I am a single father with custody of my daughter, it is not in anyway right what he
did. It is not right that members of the WWE hall of fame broke the law with drug abuse either. It is not right that men on WWE DVDs have been accused
of molesting childern, killing prostitutes, commitin suside and traficking drugs, but it happened. Chris Benoit killed his family and himself it
happened. Vince broke kayfabe and dedicated three hours to the murderer, it happened; move forwrd.
Chris Benoit was in a great triple threat at Wrestlemania, it happened! We are not celebrating what Chris Benoit did to Woman or Daniel by watching
his matches, we are just watching a great match. Randy Orton, as much as he sucks, had a great match with Benoit to win his first title, but all we
ever see is him holding the belt up in victory and the announcement the youngest champion ever, but nothing else... why because Benoit is the one he
beats, yep.
WWE needs to stop excluding Chris Benoit in the DVDs and video packages. I find it disturbing that Shawn Micheals put a crossface on someone and it
froze Good Ol JR so much he did not speak for a moment. The man had problems, but he performed well in the ring.
M.Jackson
T.Cobb
C.Chaplin
G.Ruth
C.Farley
M.Tyson
J.Booth (I kid with this one)
The list is endless in people that are celebrated for their art rather than for their life outside of the entertainment they provided.
*Chris Benoit should be in WWE dvds.
(before anyone jumps on me, I know I am a bad speller)
[Edited on 1-16-2010 by RockyTopWrestling]
[Edited on 1-16-2010 by RockyTopWrestling]
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S Kid J E T S 48
Man of a Thousand Holds  
Posts 1007
Registered 10-12-2007 Location New York Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 1-16-2010 at 04:18 AM |
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My opinion on the matter is is that its just not worth it for WWE to acknowledge him. He's a roider who killed his family and himself and any
attempt by WWE to make money off his name cannot and will not look good. Of the many horrible things WWE has done (like sometimes bastardize Eddie
Guerrero's name time to time), one thing they have done very well, and one that has probably taken significant work to do, is to never mention,
or allow Benoit on our TV screens since then.
EDIT: If anyone really wants to see his matches, most of the good ones are available on Youtube or other sites. He was a great wrestler, but in some
ways, I find it hard to disconnect person and art when the person turns out to be such a horrible one.
One other thing, and this doesn't really pertain to you or this subject, but some of the threads here could really use more specific titles.
I'm not sure why it bothers me so much, but stuff like "Mike Tyson", "Wrestling Fans", "Sheamus" doesn't really give much info of
what conversation is going on there and sometimes I just want to know what I'm clicking first.
I dunno...it's probably just me being OCD.
[Edited on 1-16-2010 by S Kid J E T S 48]
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Chris Is Good517
Posts 7865
Registered 1-10-2002 Location Little Rock, AR Member Is Offline Mood: OMG #1 Poster!
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| posted on 1-16-2010 at 04:41 AM |
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I'm hardly the board's resident spelling enforcer, but you could have at least spelled Benoit correctly in the thread title. 
Seriously, I see both arguments. Benoit is a part of wrestling's past. You can't just sweep him or his in-ring legacy under the rug.
I'm pretty sure the Heisman committee still lists OJ Simpson as a previous winner. He happened. He had great matches and a title run that
arguably deserve to be preserved in history.
I completely see the other side of the argument: anything that Vince does that acknowledges Benoit will be perceived by somebody to be
profiting off the name of a murderer. WWE is far better off, at least for the forseeable future, to pretend Benoit never existed. Its a lot easier for
them this way. Maybe 20 years from now when this has been largely forgotten and if another wrestler doesn't pull something similar
between now and then, then possibly they could include a match of his here or there. Even then it will probably be a controversial move.
The OOficial 2009 Poster of the Year!
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DrBoz
Showstopper
Posts 740
Registered 1-2-2006 Location Indiana Member Is Offline Mood: Crescent Fresh
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| posted on 1-16-2010 at 08:17 AM |
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I suspect there would be little reaction if they started including Benoit matches on DVD's now. I'm not saying throw out a 3-disc Benoit
spectacular, nor am I saying they should put his name under the Alumni on the website or consider ever putting him in the Hall of Fame ever. But
maybe a match or two can get thrown in with some of the upcoming sets. I can't see Nancy Grace in the future dedicating an entire show to her
outrage that, say, Orton/Benoit was included in Orton's upcoming box set. As much as the media loves to tell and sell that kind of story, I
think ultimately they just wouldn't give a fuck because it's wrestling. And truthfully, most non fans only care to pay attention when bad
things happen. After they vomit up their disgust with such behavior and wrestling in general, they feel a lot better and move on. Non fans
wouldn't give two shits about a Benoit match being on a DVD, mainly because they would never know.
But then again, the continuing trend is to make mountains out of molehills. We live in a day and age where people fucking call 911 to complain about
McDonalds being out of McNuggets, so I'm probably completely wrong about my theory that people wouldn't care.
It surprises me that the WWE is still so hard-line about Benoit. Hell, a convicted rapist just hosted RAW, never mind the countless other violent
crimes he's committed in his life. The big difference, of course, is he hasn't killed anyone or harmed any children (as far as I know).
That IS a pretty big difference, but still you'd think a guy with a long track record including rape, domestic violence, and violence in general
would probably be the kind of guy you'd steer clear of with your product.
Then the cynical part of me kicks in and says that, if the consumer demanded it, Vince would churn out Benoit stuff in a heartbeat. For now though, I
think enough of those consumers still feel too weird about wanting anything remotely Benoit related. That'll change though. It always does.
It already has.
"I guess my heaviest experience is gravity...keeps my feet down...it's like weighing me down...I can't get my arms up now...like my legs
fall...I'm falling down and I can't...it's making me heavier...I'm heavier...I can't move...Now I'm a dead dog in
water...I can't...I'm floating but I sink to the water...I'm a wet sandwich...wet with meat...I'm broken salami...tiny
mustaches are heavy...I'm falling...."
- Chester from Sifl and Olly
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Chris Is Good517
Posts 7865
Registered 1-10-2002 Location Little Rock, AR Member Is Offline Mood: OMG #1 Poster!
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| posted on 1-16-2010 at 04:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DrBoz
Hell, a convicted rapist just hosted RAW, never mind the countless other violent crimes he's committed in his life. The big difference, of
course, is he hasn't killed anyone or harmed any children (as far as I know).
Well, he has threatened to eat a few.
Also, Benoit's matches have been included in the PPV anthologies they've been doing, so while he isn't being included in any of the
"Wrestler X Greatest Matches" DVDs they haven't written him completely out of history and seem reluctantly willing to include him in a
20 disc set that features complete events that he participated in. So there is that.
The OOficial 2009 Poster of the Year!
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nOOb
The Rowdy One
Posts 2715
Registered 5-24-2004 Member Is Offline Mood: Berries&Cre
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| posted on 1-16-2010 at 06:21 PM |
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I'm sure a Benoit DVD is coming. Not soon, but in about four or five years, when the thing is all but forgotten, I'm sure Vince will
think it a good idea to go in-depth into Benoit's life, get a few people to give their insights, and make it seem like just enough of a
"character study" more than a "wrestling DVD" to justify its release. Heck, all he needs to do is grab a few local and national news outlets,
have them "contribute" in some way, and that Nancy Grace "outrage" will turn into Nancy Grace "praise".
Everything about this girl is awesome. She's hot, she got kicked out of school for sucking too many dicks, she takes it in the ass and her body
gives itself abortions. -Punker on Lilly Allen's Miscarriage
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Paddlefoot
Posts 710
Registered 1-19-2008 Location Circus Of Gay Member Is Offline Mood: F'd N Da A
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| posted on 1-16-2010 at 10:06 PM |
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Benoit will probably remain toxic to WWE indefinitely because I doubt that they'll ever visualize a "right" moment to remember him.
It'll probably stay identical to the NFL and how any reference to OJ Simpson stays unsaid unless it is absolutely 100% necessary to whatever
moment is at hand. Even if they donate the full proceeds from any revised or new Benoit DVD to domestic violence prevention or to something like
Wrestler's Rescue it'd still be seen as vulture-like profiteering in the uneducated public eye, thank you very much Nancy Grace.
I think every good Christian ought to kick (Jerry) Falwell right in the ass. - Barry Goldwater, 1981
The middle of the road is all the usable surface. The extremes of left and right are in the gutters. - Dwight David Eisenhower
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the goon
The Rowdy One 
Posts 2720
Registered 3-13-2004 Location Charlotte, NC Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 1-17-2010 at 01:24 AM |
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I honestly don't think we will ever, ever see a WWE-sanctioned Chris Benoit DVD, even if it is done more as a documentary piece. Even years down
the line when people are starting to forget about it (or forget it as much as possible), it would be like saying "Hey everyone, remember that we used
to have a guy who killed his family and himself working for us...check out the new DVD about him!" I don't even know how they would promote it,
as you couldn't really have Michael Cole telling us it was going to be available this Tuesday at WWE Shopzone.com during RAW.
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RockyTopWrestling
rOOkie
Posts 28
Registered 12-19-2009 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 1-17-2010 at 01:40 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
It'll probably stay identical to the NFL and how any reference to OJ Simpson stays unsaid unless it is absolutely 100% necessary to whatever
moment is at hand.
Which if there is a Randy Orton DVD then Benoit would need to have that match shown.
I think the reference to the anthology DVDs was right on, but those DVDs just show the events from start to finish, if they skipped a Benoit match
then it would seem out of place for the DVD because he was usally involved in a title match or heavily hyped feud.
My original complaint was from the TopTen matches of 2000 that is onDemand this month. But as I looked over my collections of the IC, World and WWE
championship, WCW fall of DVDs and of coarse where they dub Ric Flair saying Mongo twice from the Hall of Fame speech it seems for lack of a better
word overkill.
Does anyone else feel the Vince is more mad at himself for scraping a long built storyline to dedicate his flagship show to someone that was going to
be proven as a child murderer more than anything else? Nancy Grace, as much of a cunt as she is, buired WWE for that RAW.
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Chris Is Good517
Posts 7865
Registered 1-10-2002 Location Little Rock, AR Member Is Offline Mood: OMG #1 Poster!
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| posted on 1-17-2010 at 02:36 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by RockyTopWrestling
Does anyone else feel the Vince is more mad at himself for scraping a long built storyline to dedicate his flagship show to someone that was going to
be proven as a child murderer more than anything else? Nancy Grace, as much of a cunt as she is, buired WWE for that RAW.
Oh, fuck Nancy Grace. Look, Vince didn't know any more than we did when they aired that tribute. The information didn't start pouring out
until afterward. The argument that "they should have waited until more information is available" is total fucking bullshit. What do you do? Try to
tell your performers "just go out there and pretend nothing's wrong" and stick to business as usual when just about every single person in the
locker room was in a (probably unparalelled) state of shock and grief for a co-worker they loved and admired and his wife and child? Continue running
the "Vince died in a fiery auto explosion!" angle that was in extremely poor taste before the Benoit fiasco? Air nothing and fuck USA over
and piss off the advertisers by forcing the network to try to fill a three hour block of TV on a few hours notice on what is probably the highest
rated night of the week for them? Show a rerun and confuse and enrage your audience? And theoretically, what if the circumstances had been different,
say there had been a gas leak and the Benoits died of carbon monoxide poisioning and Vince hadn't aired that tribute? The wrestling
community would have come after Vince with torches and pitchforks. He was in a situation where there was really no alternative based on the lack of
information he had at the time. There are dozens if not hundreds of terrible, morally reprehensible decisions Vince has made over the decades, but
this is one where I will never question him. He did the only thing he could do. And Nancy Grace can be outraged about it and that's fine because
Nancy Grace makes her living being outraged about everything. Somewhere in America there is probably a Starbucks that didn't put enough whipped
cream on Nancy Grace's soy latte and you can bet your ass she's outraged about that, too. So fuck her, who cares what she thinks and who
knows if her outrage toward Vince and WWE is even real?
The OOficial 2009 Poster of the Year!
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LuckyLopez
Reeks of WCW 
Posts 11471
Registered 2-13-2003 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 1-17-2010 at 02:54 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris Is Good517
Look, Vince didn't know any more than we did when they aired that tribute. The information didn't start pouring out until afterward.
In fairness, he probably did. Ignoring basic assumptions like "WWE and its employees probably got wind of news before us, who got wind of the story
mere hours after RAW" there's also all the other realities. WWE knew Benoit. For real. Not this horseshit silly fan nonsense that we
"knew" the guy, they knew the guy. They knew his relationship with his family and how highly strung he was. And its pretty clear that a lot of
these guys did sort of see SOMETHING in him if not THIS. They knew about the creepy text messages and weird no-shows and the strange excuses. They
knew it was a really strange case that had a good chance of turning bad on them. What I'll always remember of Benoit's death was sitting
in chat with FFC and others talking about how all the minor details we knew pointed to Benoit being the killer and how all the silly hero worship of
him seemed primed to look terrible IF the story turned this way. And then it did and we had a lot of emotions but surprise wasn't one of them.
That isn't to say that I blame Vince and WWE for airing the tribute. Because they really only had a couple of choices. (1) Do a regular show
and get killed for not acknowledging the tragedy, (2) do a tribute and get killed if Benoit proved to be a monster, (3) do a sort of nebulous
non-story/non-tribute show that probably gets killed for both things, (4) go dark and just lose money. And maybe going dark would have made the most
sense since that's the sort of thing you'd think a sports company would do, as a business you can understand why WWE avoided dealing with
advertisers and USA there, especially since it was all happening so fast.
So I don't really blame WWE for the tribute, but then again I think we're lying if we say they didn't have a sense of what was
coming. In fact I remember a lot of us noting how many of the tributes seemed strangely cold and how it didn't have the same heart and
compassion as the Owen or Eddie shows. Hours later a lot of us were looking back on comments said on RAW and saying "Oh... THAT's why
so-and-so seemed so cold and weird."
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RockyTopWrestling
rOOkie
Posts 28
Registered 12-19-2009 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 1-17-2010 at 03:02 AM |
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and again, WWE was caught with their pants down and by allowing Benoit back on dvds then they admit their own mistake, the tribute.
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LuckyLopez
Reeks of WCW
Posts 11471
Registered 2-13-2003 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 1-17-2010 at 03:17 AM |
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I don't understand that point at all but I want to clarify my stance.
I can't blame WWE. I think they might sometimes go over the top but that's only because this is such a touchy subject. Ultimately I
think they'll keep Benoit in the package when necessary but cut him out when they can, and I can't blame them for that. It sucks that WWE
has such a monopoly on wrestling's history that they CAN eliminate him from wrestling history if they really try. In 20 years Benoit could be
an urban legend with hard to see footage of. But this is the reality of the situation and I can't blame a publicly traded company with more PR
problems than the porn industry for playing it safe with the child killer who they were employing and who spent his entire career as an intense beast
that perfectly mirrors the monster he was in real life.
I mean, I'm pretty desensitized and I can watch a Benoit match with out feeling bad but even I can't watch the Kevin Sullivan stuff or the
Rumble/WM stuff without being weirded the fuck out.
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the goon
The Rowdy One
Posts 2720
Registered 3-13-2004 Location Charlotte, NC Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 1-17-2010 at 04:12 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris Is Good517 What do you do? Try to tell your performers "just go out there and pretend nothing's
wrong" and stick to business as usual when just about every single person in the locker room was in a (probably unparalelled) state of shock and
grief for a co-worker they loved and admired and his wife and child?
Well, that is what they did when Owen died at the Over The Edge PPV (though I'll certainly admit that that was a split-second judgment, as
opposed to having at least some time to figure out what to do after Benoit's death). But it wouldn't have been an unprecedented move for
the WWE.
But regardless, I'm with you and Lucky. WWE was pretty much in a "damned if you, damned if you don't" situation with what to do during
that night's RAW.
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SeanSmythe
Rated R Superstar
Posts 369
Registered 7-27-2006 Member Is Offline Mood: Hungry
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| posted on 1-17-2010 at 05:24 PM |
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Well if it means anything they are starting to recognize him again on WWE.com I checked the rumble history for 2004, and unlike past years this time
he was mentioned.
A lifestyle is a terrible thing to waste
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Cherokee Jack
Creepy Little Bastard
Posts 69
Registered 2-24-2009 Location New Orleans, LA Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 1-17-2010 at 07:08 PM |
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As far as the Owen situation at Over The Edge goes, totally different. For one, he hadn't been declared dead yet (as I remember reading, he
wasn't officially pronounced dead until he arrived at the hospital), so as grave as the situation may have been, no one knew for certain what
the extent of the damage was, and secondly, they were right in the middle of the show, there was no time to consider options and figure out what to
do. Vince had like 5 minutes to decide between "continue the show" and "spontaneously stop the show".
As far as the Benoit Raw goes, I do believe that they didn't know all the details prior to the show. I think they had information coming in
throughout, because I remember it seeming odd that the announce teams that were there to introduce the matches started off talking about Benoit as a
family man and everything (just like the Owen/Eddie shows), and at some point later in the show, they stopped referring to his family at all and just
said what a good wrestler he was, and you could tell they were getting uncomfortable.
As far as how to approach him for DVD releases and whatnot, I think the way they've handled it lately is the way to go. You can't just
pretend he never existed, so it's fine to include his matches in a purely historical context (complete event anthologies, and matches like the
Orton first world title win that kinda need to be included in an Orton set), but they shouldn't use his name to promote anything, because
that's when they'll start getting shit for profiting from his what happened.
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nOOb
The Rowdy One
Posts 2715
Registered 5-24-2004 Member Is Offline Mood: Berries&Cre
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| posted on 1-17-2010 at 07:08 PM |
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The only thing I remember about the tribute show was they talked with Rey and Chavo and some of Benoit's other wrestling buddies, and they were
all torn up. And then they talked to William Regal, and he was pretty pissed off, really short, and just said he was sad for his family before
getting up and walking out. Obviously, that makes a bit more sense now that we know why he did it, but it seemed strange at the time.
Everything about this girl is awesome. She's hot, she got kicked out of school for sucking too many dicks, she takes it in the ass and her body
gives itself abortions. -Punker on Lilly Allen's Miscarriage
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LuckyLopez
Reeks of WCW
Posts 11471
Registered 2-13-2003 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 1-17-2010 at 07:23 PM |
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Regal's thing was really creepy even BEFORE we knew what happened. He basically had this short rant about what a hard and stern man Benoit was
and I remember joking around that Regal made it sound like Benoit was a suspect. That was one of those things that, like I said, we weren't
surprised when Benoit was revealed to be the killer because that reality was already in our heads and even kind of supported by a lot of elements of
the story. Which is again while I say that if you assume WWE was in the dark you're probably being naive. I'm sure they didn't
know 100% that Benoit had killed his wife and child but if they weren't aware that he was a suspect and weren't considering the
possibility then they're just dense.
But again, I don't blame them for running the tribute because they didn't have a lot of options. Now Over the Edge? Fuck that, they
should have stopped the show. I won't kill them for it because, again, you're asked to make tough decisions at times like that and its
usually pretty easy to find mistakes and very easy to excuse them. But still, that one feels wrong and more of a case of "we don't want to
have to deal with the pain in the ass of canceling the show and refunding all the money of viewers and ticket holders" than anything else. Dude
falls to his death in the middle of the ring. Even if he ain't dead at the moment, its time to close up shop for the night.
The message sent there was kind of "damn, nothing stops a WWE show, huh?"
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Warrior
Rated R Superstar
Posts 274
Registered 1-4-2002 Location Bishop, CA Member Is Offline Mood: What mood?
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| posted on 1-18-2010 at 04:41 AM |
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Why is it whenever Benoit is brought up, he's brought up as a monster? People forget the newer evidence of the brain damage he had, most likely
due to concussions he suffered with his head dive, etc. Add in having his system screwed up from steroid usage (to keep up with the rest of the
wrestling world).
He no doubt suffered dementia or something similar.
Was what happened right? No. But I don't think he was ENTIRELY at fault (meaning in control of his actions via mind set) either.
Never buy a keyboard from a Ferengi.
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LuckyLopez
Reeks of WCW
Posts 11471
Registered 2-13-2003 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 1-18-2010 at 05:00 AM |
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Because he was a monster. Maybe he wasn't a monster a day earlier or a year earlier or 10 years earlier. Maybe he wasn't born a monster.
Maybe brain damage and physical and emotional abuse turned him into one. But the day he made the decision to murder his wife and child he became
one. And you can say whatever you want about Benoit but in the end you have to include one simple phrase. "Child killer."
So that's why he's called a monster.
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Chris Is Good517
Posts 7865
Registered 1-10-2002 Location Little Rock, AR Member Is Offline Mood: OMG #1 Poster!
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| posted on 1-18-2010 at 05:27 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Warrior
Why is it whenever Benoit is brought up, he's brought up as a monster? People forget the newer evidence of the brain damage he had, most likely
due to concussions he suffered with his head dive, etc. Add in having his system screwed up from steroid usage (to keep up with the rest of the
wrestling world).
He no doubt suffered dementia or something similar.
Was what happened right? No. But I don't think he was ENTIRELY at fault (meaning in control of his actions via mind set) either.
But this is where we begin a very slippery slope. You can't absolve him of too much (if any) responsibility for what he did, man. If you want to
blame it on steroids that's fine but those steroids didn't put themselves in his body. Yeah, his brain was pretty scrambled but I refuse
to believe his brain was so scrambled that he didn't know what he was doing when he killed his family, or that what he was doing was horrible.
Obviously there are some circumstances outside of Benoit's immediate control that maybe could have altered some events but ultimately Chris
Benoit and only Chris Benoit is responsible and should be held accountable for what he did that night. There's a reason nobody says
"other than all those drugs that made them kill Sharon Tate and those other people those Manson Family folks were pretty nice kids"
The OOficial 2009 Poster of the Year!
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Warrior
Rated R Superstar
Posts 274
Registered 1-4-2002 Location Bishop, CA Member Is Offline Mood: What mood?
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| posted on 1-18-2010 at 05:38 AM |
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As I said- Os what he did right? No. But there *is* a lot more to it than just being a straight up monster. There are also NFL players who killed
themselves, and the common aspect with Benoit is concussions and brain damage.
I never blamed it on 'roids. Certainly THOSE were under his control of placing into his body. But the business pressure of using them cannot be
cast aside either.
Do I forgive what he did? Absolutely not. But do I understand there is more to it than simply being a monster? Yes.
Never buy a keyboard from a Ferengi.
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the goon
The Rowdy One
Posts 2720
Registered 3-13-2004 Location Charlotte, NC Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 1-18-2010 at 06:12 AM |
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The one thing I can say about Benoit is that if he had chosen any other profession in life besides professional wrestling, I think he would be alive
(and sane) today. Kind of going with what Lucky said, I don't think Benoit was born a monster. I don't think he was a monster during his
runs in ECW and WCW, and I don't think he was a monster for most of his WWE run. I just think through mass steroid use (his own fault, of
course) and whatever head traumas he suffered in the ring, he did become a fucked up monster. At that's not to absolve him of his crimes in any
way, but I just think that if he had decided to be say, a manager at McDonald's, he wouldn't have murdered his family and killed himself.
My fake (but real!) band's MySpace
My solo project on MySpace, covering music from old NES games
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Warrior
Rated R Superstar
Posts 274
Registered 1-4-2002 Location Bishop, CA Member Is Offline Mood: What mood?
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| posted on 1-18-2010 at 06:43 AM |
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I guess where the difference is, is the how we define "monster". I see monster as an over-all evil thing, like a Manson family. But in
Benoit's situation, whereas the final act was heinous, the over-all circumstances leading to that act was not that of a monster.
Never buy a keyboard from a Ferengi.
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doctorb
Posts 486
Registered 6-27-2007 Location Where everyone is rich but me Member Is Offline Mood: need coffee
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| posted on 1-18-2010 at 07:44 PM |
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I think putting a bible by your son's bed and then strangling him to death is the act of a monster. It was premeditated. Why he was fucked in
the head doesn't change the fact that he was fucked in the head.
But we did like 66 pages on this years ago, which might actually be an interesting read considering it was happening as the news was being let out.
The "B" is for Bargain!
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