OORick
Hammer in Transition 
Posts 1427
Registered 12-27-2001 Location - The Birthplace of Aviation Member Is Offline Mood: Evil
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| posted on 2-3-2010 at 04:50 AM |
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OOfficial Discussion Thread for: OMG The End of ECW~! (February 2, 2010)
I'm heading off to bed, and won't cut-and-paste the usual jibber-jabber up top, since the show already happened...
But: since the show already happened, we, uhh, already know what happened. Which, primarily, means, we know Vince deigned to show up on Tuesday and
announce that ECW is dead as of 3 weeks from now (the Tuesday after Elimination Chamber PPV).
I dunno about you, but I either assumed they'd do this quick and dirty (basically a one-week turn-around), or give it a good build/explanation
to set up ECW's demise. This is neither. Therefore: I dislike it and off-handedly spew my voluminous venom at WWE's braintrust for being
diptards with liberal arts degrees and zero intelligence.
Two things I'll assume:
(1) Christian will now (quietly?) retire the "ECW" Title, which is no great honor, but still a nice footnote. Kinda like his bestest BFF, Rhino, got
to retire the REAL ECW Title, and is still remembered for little other than his stint in Team RECK.
(2) The new show that replaces ECW will be youth/developmental-based.
As such, I hereby re-affirm my love of the "Beat the Champ" Title concept, and think it'd be perfect for some new show called "WWE Proving
Grounds" (or whatever stupid shit they come up with). Go back to previous threads (or gOOgle "Beat the Champ" and "SMW") and you'll see
what I mean. A new show with young kids, meant to expose them to the masses and see what catches on is NOT a bad idea. A "title" that -- if they win
it and retain it for five straight weeks -- results in an instant promotion to their choice of the RAW/SD rosters, is a PERFECT fit for that show. It
doesn't have to be on PPV, it doesn't have to be "equal" to RAW or SD's title... in fact, it's value is in it being a
totally seperate and unique thing: it's a Young Man's Title, one that EARNS his way onto one of the other rosters where he might finally
earn a living or be seen on PPV. I kinda like that idea...
Rick
[Edited on 2-3-2010 by OORick]
"He's from Mars, Officer; whiskey does not affect alien beings."
-- Venus Flytrap speaking on The Rick
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nobledictator
And I am AWESOME 
Posts 156
Registered 2-28-2005 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 2-3-2010 at 04:58 AM |
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I think it be neat if you take certain individuals on the main roster that is like a black spot type of thing. That is to say if you are on Raw and
you win then that spot goes to the loser.
That guy that can move up from this new show should face that person to take there spot on the show. I think it would be a neat dynamic to make the
lower card important...
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DrBoz
Showstopper
Posts 676
Registered 1-2-2006 Location Indiana Member Is OnlineMood: Crescent Fresh
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| posted on 2-3-2010 at 12:09 PM |
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I'm surprised they didn't use WM to end ECW. I mean yeah, this isn't and never has been the real ECW or anything, but you could at
least use the biggest show of the year to make a dramatic transformation like that. I personally liked my idea of Christian defending at WM, winning,
and basically saying "I beat everyone, so peace out y'all" in order to have a reason to remake ECW.
Meh, who cares. I haven't been watching for a while anyway. I might be more interested in this NXT show though, especially if it is going to
feature a bunch of young guys I'd only recognize because Lucky covered a bunch of them in the FCW thread. I want to see if that Justin Angel
kid (or whatever his name is) looks as much like Adam Lambert as he did in the one picture I saw.
"I guess my heaviest experience is gravity...keeps my feet down...it's like weighing me down...I can't get my arms up now...like my legs
fall...I'm falling down and I can't...it's making me heavier...I'm heavier...I can't move...Now I'm a dead dog in
water...I can't...I'm floating but I sink to the water...I'm a wet sandwich...wet with meat...I'm broken salami...tiny
mustaches are heavy...I'm falling...."
- Chester from Sifl and Olly
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Chris Is Good517
Posts 7727
Registered 1-10-2002 Location Little Rock, AR Member Is Offline Mood: OMG #1 Poster!
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| posted on 2-3-2010 at 02:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DrBoz
I want to see if that Justin Angel kid (or whatever his name is) looks as much like Adam Lambert as he did in the one picture I saw.
Thanks for completely ruining Justin Angel for me before he even got called up to the main roster.
The OOficial 2009 Poster of the Year!
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Jazzman
Rated R Superstar
Posts 351
Registered 3-10-2003 Location Worldwide Member Is Offline Mood: Pensive
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| posted on 2-3-2010 at 07:28 PM |
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Any kind of rebooting/retooling could have taken place while continuing to use the ECW name. I take the end of ECW to mean that Vince has decided
that the value of the ECW name is now less than zero, just like WCW was post-invasion.
That in and of itself is sad. Not necessarily inaccurate, just...sad.
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atothej
Posts 2331
Registered 12-21-2002 Location Philly Member Is Offline Mood: No Mood.
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| posted on 2-3-2010 at 07:45 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jazzman
I take the end of ECW to mean that Vince has decided that the value of the ECW name is now less than zero, just like WCW was post-invasion.
That in and of itself is sad. Not necessarily inaccurate, just...sad.
Actually, I think (and Rick has alluded to this) that the value of the ECW name lies in the history of the real ECW, and that the current iteration
actually devalues that history by association.
Your momma's so fat, Dave Meltzer gave her struggling to put her jeans on in the morning five stars. -- FF, destroying Jeb, his momma, and
Meltzer in one fell swoop.
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OORick
Hammer in Transition
Posts 1427
Registered 12-27-2001 Location - The Birthplace of Aviation Member Is Offline Mood: Evil
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| posted on 2-3-2010 at 07:51 PM |
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Just talked to somebody who says the focus on youth/developmental is 100% gonna happen, and further: WWE just trademarked "NXT" for use as a
title/brand name.
Given the number of times Vince dropped the word "next" in his little speech last night, I'm not surprised... do they actually try to make it
stand for something, or just use it as-is, with the understanding that it's basically dipshit twitter-talk shorthand for "next"?
I guess it's no better or worse than any ideas I came up with in the past 12 hours... "Proving Grounds" was probably the best I had, and
it's no great shakes. My real nightmare was that -- between Tiffany's "New Talent Initiative" and the popularity of eight billions
CSI's and NCIS's and all that -- we'd end up being treated to "WWE: NTI." Or maybe "NTI: Universe."
I wonder what this means for the "solid hands" (tm, JR) who cycle through ECW to hold the hands of the young 'uns. Do they stay, and somehow
try to fit in with an almost purely developmental show? Or can we start hoping for stuff like Christian getting shipped to SD where he can mingle with
Edge, and Goldust going to RAW where his gimmick would be awesome for all kinds of goofy fun (especially with guest hosts)? Regal's a bit of a
wild-card, as he's as much manager/mentor as active wrestler at this point, so he might have a built-in excuse to stay on the "young" show,
while still having semi-regular matches...
Rick
"He's from Mars, Officer; whiskey does not affect alien beings."
-- Venus Flytrap speaking on The Rick
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LuckyLopez
Reeks of WCW 
Posts 11272
Registered 2-13-2003 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 2-3-2010 at 07:56 PM |
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Word.
The ECW name served a purpose when this experiment started and it was filled with ECW talents, in ECW arena, with an ECW feel, and all together was
meant to conjure up the spirit of the company to create an alternative product.
When they ditched that and it became any old C brand it became useless and with each passing week the "ECW" name became less meaningful because WWE
was giving its own ECW more reason to be seen as ECW. Now we're at a point where if you want to talk about ECW you have to throw in a "the
original" to make sure people know you're not talking about Velocity.
So a name change is about 2 years over do. But if they're switching over fully to a developmental midway station for new talents then its a
good time to do it, because keeping the name would have just meant further devaluing of the ECW name. Maybe Jazzman's right. Maybe this is
just Vince deciding that the ECW name no longer has value. Now that ECW draws lower ratings than Superstars and Impact. But if that's the case
then I'd say its just Vince making excuses for why a half assed, C brand that was treated as worthless by WWE couldn't use someone
else's brand name to cover up their own flaws.
Hey, everyone loves HiC Ecto Cooler. Its got a real cult following. Release Ecto Cooler now and people will go out and buy it. Then they'll
taste it and say "This isn't the Ecto Cooler I knew. Its different." Eventually they'll stop buying it because its called Ecto Cooler,
they'll buy it or skip over it based on what it tastes like.
At the very least this accomplishes two things.
1) Overly passionate ECW fans won't unreasonably compare a meaningless C brand to their favorite cult fed.
2) Overly defensive WWE ECW fans won't unreasonably assume that if you don't like WWE ECW its because you're one of those #1 guys
who can't judge it for what it is.
EDIT: For what its worth, NXT Wrestling already exists.
http://www.nxtwrestling.com/
And "WWE NXT" HAS To be in competition with "NWA TNA" for worse name, right?
[Edited on 2-3-2010 by LuckyLopez]
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Jazzman
Rated R Superstar
Posts 351
Registered 3-10-2003 Location Worldwide Member Is Offline Mood: Pensive
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| posted on 2-3-2010 at 07:58 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by atothej
quote:
Originally posted by Jazzman
I take the end of ECW to mean that Vince has decided that the value of the ECW name is now less than zero, just like WCW was post-invasion.
That in and of itself is sad. Not necessarily inaccurate, just...sad.
Actually, I think (and Rick has alluded to this) that the value of the ECW name lies in the history of the real ECW, and that the current iteration
actually devalues that history by association.
I don't dispute that, but I doubt that Vince cares much about that. If he perceived the name as carrying diminished but positive value, they
would work with the brand ECW, not abandon it.
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C.MontgomeryPunk
Creepy Little Bastard
Posts 78
Registered 1-6-2010 Member Is OnlineMood: ButtViper-y
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| posted on 2-3-2010 at 08:37 PM |
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Bryan Danielson, Kaval, Heath Slater, Johnny Curtis, Alex Riley, Michael Tarver, Alberto Banderas, and Justin Angel are all television ready.
Will the new show be filmed on the road with the SD! brand? Or will it be filmed out of the FCW arena with it's seating for 200?
From the show last night, it was watchable. Best segment with the Helms interview of Regal/Jackson. Regal will make a great manager in the future
(probably be an road agent/producer as well).
My Mother was a preacher and my Father was a prizefighter...
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atothej
Posts 2331
Registered 12-21-2002 Location Philly Member Is Offline Mood: No Mood.
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| posted on 2-3-2010 at 08:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jazzman
I don't dispute that, but I doubt that Vince cares much about that. If he perceived the name as carrying diminished but positive value, they
would work with the brand ECW, not abandon it.
That ignores one major point, though: Vince owns the valuable video library for the original ECW. Thus, any diminution of that brand name by the
current version of ECW will cost Vince money in the form of lessening interest from marginal fans in the original product.
Your momma's so fat, Dave Meltzer gave her struggling to put her jeans on in the morning five stars. -- FF, destroying Jeb, his momma, and
Meltzer in one fell swoop.
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Psycho Penguin
Creepy Little Bastard
Posts 89
Registered 6-30-2002 Location Greenacres FL Member Is Offline Mood: No Mood.
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| posted on 2-3-2010 at 09:21 PM |
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I guess I'll be the first and rate this show.. 3.0. The opening segment was not as funny as the one with Kozlov, but Atlas always brings some
laughs. Lance Archer vs Shelton just needs to fucking end, I swear I've seen this match for five or six straight weeks now. Baretta vs Yoshi was
just there. That feud is spinning its wheels. The Vince segment was short and to the point, kudos to the WWE for actually explaining something fairly
and out of character for a change. I expected him to rant about how ECW is becoming too good under his watch and the old ECW sucked or something, so
that was nice to see. The main event wasn't even close to as good as the last Ryder/Christian match and seemed more like angle development.. I
do think Christian and Regal have been feuding in some capacity since July. Christian has been back almost a year and has had three feuds - Swagger,
Dreamer, and Regal. I am not saying they're burying him, but wow. Waste of talent.
I do see no reason why Christian, Ryder, Yoshi, Goldust, Regal, etc. can't stay around in the NWT if thats what they're gonna call it. The
young guys would need some seasoned guys and veterans to share TV time with, wouldn't they? I thought this was just a renaming, so why are
people so quick to assume they're gonna get rid of all the wrestlers in ECW?
quote:
I dunno about you, but I either assumed they'd do this quick and dirty (basically a one-week turn-around), or give it a good build/explanation
to set up ECW's demise. This is neither. Therefore: I dislike it and off-handedly spew my voluminous venom at WWE's braintrust for being
diptards with liberal arts degrees and zero intelligence.
I couldn't stop lol'ing at the guy thats been fantasy booking with long ass columns for ages thinks he knows more than people running a
multi-million dollar publicaly shared company. It's cute. And it's ECW, likely no one gives a shit about its build or explanation. I think
Vince explaining it to the fans and giving them time to plan ahead is a better idea than some silly angle that they'd probably blow in
spectacular fashion (like they always do in the internet's eyes) and you'd spend four posts writing about how STUPID THE MONKEY WRITERS
ARE LOL GET IT THEY ARE STUPID AND MONKEYS, but what do I know.
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Figure Foreskin
Prefers punkerhardcore Penis 
Posts 2312
Registered 5-4-2004 Location 5-4-2004 Member Is Offline Mood: Smashing
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| posted on 2-3-2010 at 09:44 PM |
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The only thing smarter than attacking Jeb is attacking Rick. Go get 'im, Penguin. I'm sure you won't be crushed like all the others.
In Chat after rabbxt had said something about hating people who smoke
"I'm gonna tie rabbxt down and smoke cigarettes in his face then sodomize him with a can of mountain dew." -Me
"Damn...half of that would suck." -rabbxt
"Any time you agree with Krydor, you're wrong." - Jeb
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Frank Lloyd Wright
Showstopper 
Posts 585
Registered 10-2-2007 Location Fallingwater Member Is Offline Mood: Megalomaniac
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| posted on 2-3-2010 at 09:58 PM |
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It's interesting how the WWE sticks it to their guys when they fuck up outside the ring. The show kind of felt like a roast for Gregory Helms.
He not only gets raked over the coals, but gets his ass kicked as well.
I have two ambitions in life: one is to drink every pub dry, the other is to sleep with every woman on earth -- Oliver Reed
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LuckyLopez
Reeks of WCW
Posts 11272
Registered 2-13-2003 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 2-3-2010 at 10:07 PM |
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Its amusing how Hurricane gets raked over the coals and embarrassed when Jericho doesn't. And Jericho devotes his Twitter to making pathetic
and deluded insults at TMZ or smarks for making too big a deal out of it when his own company then goes and does it.
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FistHiccups
Showstopper
Posts 945
Registered 6-27-2007 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 2-3-2010 at 10:31 PM |
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To fantasy-book the end of ECW: I think it could've used a CM Punk title win and subsequent crusade to stamp out the ECW legacy that's
associated with recklessness and decadence. The old ECW names could've even been brought back as one-offs to challenge him for the title each
week - Sandman, Sabu, etc. Would've worked better had Dreamer been the ECW GM. Ultimately leads to an RVD (back for say a four-week run) vs Punk
feud, with the stipulation being that if Punk wins, he becomes GM and will rename the brand "Straight Edge Wrestling" or whatever. Before the match
(and I think it'd be worth of the WrestleMania card), RVD gets pep-talked by Dreamer and/or other ECW Originals. Punk wins.
The next show even has a cutesy graphic and intro sequence for Straight Edge Wrestling. Punk opens the show, details his fiendish, killjoy plans for
the brand, and is interrupted by Vince McMahon or someone of similar stature but who hasn't just been a megaheel in a feud with Bret Hart -
Steph, perhaps. Authority figure decides they don't like Punk's plans, and either strips him of the status and renames the brand
immediately, or puts him in a match against Some New Guy (probably Danielson, right?) with the stipulation being that if Punk loses, Straight
Edge Wrestling is no more. And of course, Punk loses and Straight Edge Wrestling is no more. The draft is usually a couple of weeks after
WrestleMania, so Punk goes to Raw or Smackdown then anyway and we've got the developmental show with The Guy Who Beat Punk as one of the top
stars.
It's pretty smarky and essentially ignores the last two-to-three years of what ECW is all about, since it's Punk vs Original ECW. But it
sounds good to me.
quote:
Originally posted by LuckyLopez
Its amusing how Hurricane gets raked over the coals and embarrassed when Jericho doesn't. And Jericho devotes his Twitter to making pathetic
and deluded insults at TMZ or smarks for making too big a deal out of it when his own company then goes and does it.
Edge made fun of Jericho on Raw.
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Psycho Penguin
Creepy Little Bastard
Posts 89
Registered 6-30-2002 Location Greenacres FL Member Is Offline Mood: No Mood.
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| posted on 2-3-2010 at 10:37 PM |
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I really thought Ryder vs Christian was gonna be for the title with Ryder, the new face of Extreme, winning, then bragging about how he's the
new face of ECW, then finding out that ECW is being rebranded (since I thought the Vince promo would go on last).
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LuckyLopez
Reeks of WCW
Posts 11272
Registered 2-13-2003 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 2-3-2010 at 10:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by FistHiccups
Edge made fun of Jericho on Raw.
Edge tossed one throw away line at Jericho which was summarily forgotten once the segment became "make the champ look weak." It sounds like
Hurricane took a whole lot more abuse. Although admittedly, I did not watch ECW and I am merely responding to the reactions of online posters. Thus
it certainly could have been much tamer than the impression I've gotten, but that would mean online posters made up a lot of stuff like mug
shots being shown.
But honestly, I'm not surprised nor deeply offended. Jericho is a tool and WWE is a business. The business will handle a genuine commodity
like Jericho sensitively and privately while they'll make an example of an expendable employee like Helms. That's the way of the world
and I am neither surprised nor offended. I was merely responding to the previous post.
[Edited on 2-3-2010 by LuckyLopez]
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S Kid J E T S 48
Showstopper 
Posts 980
Registered 10-12-2007 Location New York Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 2-3-2010 at 10:49 PM |
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Finally, the complaining about how Vince killed ECW will end.
We all have capable brains. I loved Lucky's Ecto Cooler metaphor. Just because something is called something, if it looks totally different,
and is totally different, then we should be able to differenciate in our minds. Vince didn't kill ECW....he killed New ECW...whatever that
is.
And we can go on for days as to who's fault it is. Vince's vision was terrible. RVD and Sabu dropped the ball. Etc. Etc. And we can
have Taz cry all day about no one getting credit for what ECW was...oh well.
Finally, this idea that WWE has had for a while for this program won't be held down by a dead name that invokes passion out of people who miss
the old thing. It's a good thing. Maybe it should have been done earlier...it doesn't matter, it's happening now.
I doubt it's going to change anything. I think they like how the building process is working on the show, and they just want to see if they can
rebrand it so it can do better ratings, or give something to Syfy that isn't a dying product.
I just hope the most unique belt in wrestling stays.
As for the show, I thought it was pretty damn well rounded outside the one fuck up in Archer's match. These are the ECWs that flow well. I was
kinda hoping it was Ryder's turn for his PPV ECW shot, but I'm fine with continuing with Jackson; it allows for Hurricane to get involved
in some tag matches with them in the meantime (yes...his punishment would probably just last this week, and btw, Christian defended him quite
well....so whatever at this point).
Show gets a 3.
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FistHiccups
Showstopper
Posts 945
Registered 6-27-2007 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 2-3-2010 at 11:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by LuckyLopez
Edge tossed one throw away line at Jericho which was summarily forgotten once the segment became "make the champ look weak." It sounds like
Hurricane took a whole lot more abuse. Although admittedly, I did not watch ECW and I am merely responding to the reactions of online posters. Thus
it certainly could have been much tamer than the impression I've gotten, but that would mean online posters made up a lot of stuff like mug
shots being shown.
On ECW, it was weird. It was almost like WWE were trying to get Helms over with it - Ryder was talking about what a disgrace he is, but Christian was
using it as an example of how much more famous Helms is than Ryder.
quote:
But honestly, I'm not surprised nor deeply offended. Jericho is a tool and WWE is a business. The business will handle a genuine
commodity like Jericho sensitively and privately while they'll make an example of an expendable employee like Helms. That's the way of
the world and I am neither surprised nor offended. I was merely responding to the previous post.
I don't think expendability is the issue - there's certainly more "money" and entertainment value in WWE using it to mock Jericho than
Helms, and WWE aren't above using this stuff as ammo for featured stars. Like when Edge did the Flair road rage skits a few years back, these
sorts of things do present a backhanded opportunity for the company regardless of how expendable or important the talent. But I think the thing
you're not taking into account is that Jericho's show hasn't been on yet, and it's the third show of the WWE week. I
haven't read Smackdown spoilers so I don't know if the arrest stuff will be mentioned on there, but it'd make more sense to chide
Jericho then than it would on Raw (where it was mentioned about as much as it could be) or ECW (where nobody really has any issue with Jericho as
he's hardly ever been on the show). And considering the arrests were mentioned on Raw and ECW, it might be a bit overkillish to use them again
on Smackdown.
[Edited on 2-3-2010 by FistHiccups]
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Psycho Penguin
Creepy Little Bastard
Posts 89
Registered 6-30-2002 Location Greenacres FL Member Is Offline Mood: No Mood.
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| posted on 2-4-2010 at 12:25 AM |
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[quote riginally posted by FistHiccups]
On ECW, it was weird. It was almost like WWE were trying to get Helms over with it - Ryder was talking about what a disgrace he is, but Christian was
using it as an example of how much more famous Helms is than Ryder.
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firewoman
Rated R Superstar 
Posts 383
Registered 2-17-2006 Location columbus, oh Member Is Offline Mood: Jerichoholic
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| posted on 2-4-2010 at 12:25 AM |
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Lucky before you compare how WWE dealt with Helms v. how they dealt with Jericho, probably wanna wait and see what happens to him on Smackdown. I
haven't seen spoilers, but since that's the show he is technically on, I imagine that's where they'd do something, if
anything.
I gave the show a 2.7. Vince's "announcement" was annoying in it's brevity, where it just said "something cool is going to happen."
Any show with Abraham Washington on it does not get more than a 3.0 from me. At least until he actually shows he can wrestle.
The matches were entertaining enough, but Vance Archer still looks like he's moving at like half-speed.
2.7
[DevSop] god your sex life scares me
[SeamusMcNasty] And that is why I hate the Miz. He's got potential, but he just doesn't live up to it. Unlike Randy Orton, who has no
potential and lives right up to that.
MHJ: "if it is kinky, depraved, erotic, or a fetish, you will find it"
theflammabledouchimal: By the way, I heard that house shows have Morrison and Mcintyre teaming up to take on the team of Baretta/Croft, with Jericho
as special ref.
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C.MontgomeryPunk
Creepy Little Bastard
Posts 78
Registered 1-6-2010 Member Is OnlineMood: ButtViper-y
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| posted on 2-4-2010 at 01:12 AM |
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I think it's just a case of Helms likely being the one most to blame for the happenings that night. He was also stupid enough not to throw away
the soma he had on him. I mean he initially ran away from the scene, came back when the cops where there and didn't ditch the drugs?
My Mother was a preacher and my Father was a prizefighter...
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Chris Is Good517
Posts 7727
Registered 1-10-2002 Location Little Rock, AR Member Is Offline Mood: OMG #1 Poster!
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| posted on 2-4-2010 at 02:17 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by S Kid J E T S 48
Finally, the complaining about how Vince killed ECW will end.
Ah ha ha ha ha S Kid I like you but your naivety is adorable. Its been 9 years and the complaining about how Vince killed the Invasion hasn't
even ended.
The OOficial 2009 Poster of the Year!
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LuckyLopez
Reeks of WCW
Posts 11272
Registered 2-13-2003 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 2-4-2010 at 03:21 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by C.MontgomeryPunk
I think it's just a case of Helms likely being the one most to blame for the happenings that night. He was also stupid enough not to throw away
the soma he had on him. I mean he initially ran away from the scene, came back when the cops where there and didn't ditch the drugs?
He also wasn't charged with it so he may well have had a legitimate prescription and was just unable to produce it at the time, because he
doesn't carry it when he's out drinking.
Which doesn't change the fact that stupid drunks shouldn't pop dangerous pills.
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