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posted on 1-7-2016 at 05:27 AM
Agreed. The main spot where they fucked up last year was bringing Bryan back in January, having him promise to win the Rumble and all that and then
get tossed early and unceremoniously, as if he was no more important than Fandango.
You can bring him back without fucking over Roman if you don't tease that you're going to give them main event Bryan only to yank it away.
Just wait until after the Rumble (after Fastlane might be better, but DEFINITELY not before the Rumble), and have him show up during, say, a Kevin
Owens promo, talk about how he never lost the title, he was on a mission to restore the belt to its former glory etc etc, and you can set up something
like a Bryan/Owens match that will kick all kinds of ass, have the crowd behind it and probably satisfied.
Of course, if WWE didn't have its head up its ass for most of the last decade when it cakes to keeping guys strong, you could have (barring
injuries) Ziggler, Owens, Bray, Cesaro, Rusev, Sheamus, Barrett and more, hell maybe even a Luke Harper or a Ryback (I know he's not popular
around these parts, but another example of a guy who was super over, only to have his legs cut out when he ran into Cena) ready to seamlessly slide
into those upper-midcard/main event spots. They could still put those guys in those spots, but there's a good chance it will come across as
forced and unnatural, which will hurt the crowd's acceptance/response.
I'm Cherokee Jack!
shashwat mishra
Showstopper
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posted on 1-7-2016 at 05:54 AM
Hoping to see Samoa Joe and AJ Styles (who apparently has signed up) on the main roster soon.
With Cena gone due to injury, those two can put on two great Wrestlemania matches with the right opponents
Bret Hart - Best Ever, Undertaker - Most Memorable, The Rock - Most Entertaining.
jefft221
And I am AWESOME
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posted on 1-7-2016 at 02:26 PM
Is 31 as unlucky as 13... now everyone that was a title holder at the end of WM31 is out injured. Maybe Nikki can rehab and maybe Bryan can get
cleared.
With Cena out they really could use Bryan or Rock in a match. Maybe just use Bryan in a one-off retirement match against HHH if they still cautious
about his health. They could hype it but then wrestle a 'safe' match. Of course, it'd be all the better if they could get HBK to do
it.
Who could UT face now? Brock and HHH feuds have been run into the ground. I don't think Reigns or Bryan would be what they'd want to do.
Rock?(but if he's wrestling HHH might want him as an oppoennt? Strowman? Alberto? Jericho? Owens? Sheamus? ....or Balor, Joe, Styles or
Nakamura? Those last few might be dream matches but they'd have to be pushed really hard immediately from the Rumble forward.... all quickly
leading to them likely jobbing at WM. Might be a waste.
CCharger
The Rowdy One
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posted on 1-7-2016 at 09:31 PM
Here's a bit of Rumble related newz:
* Reportedly, Kurt Angle's contract with TNA runs out the Friday before the Royal Rumble, and there have been informal communications about
Angle being a surprise entrant in the match. Angle has said he is "winding down" his wrestling career, but that he "wouldn't rule out" a
return to the WWE.
When it Reigns, it bores.
Matte
"Family Man"
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posted on 1-8-2016 at 12:43 AM
Another injury rumor. Sasha Banks is out with an undisclosed injury.
"I'm a professional. I know exactly what I'm doing." - Jeff Hardy
First 9
Man of a Thousand Holds
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posted on 1-8-2016 at 02:11 AM
Now Bryan is just adding a bit more to the fire with this tweet.''Can @WWE clear me already?!!!''
OORick
Intellectual Savior of the Masses
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posted on 1-8-2016 at 05:52 AM
quote:Originally posted by DevilSoprano
Rick, it's 2016. It's time to stop with the idea that no one follows wrestling outside WWE.
Dev, it's 2016. That statement is more true now than it's ever been, as far as American fans go. Even TNA has gone from a vaguely relevant
niche alternative with an audience about one-quarter of WWE's to.... whatever it is you want to call 250,000 people watching your heavily hyped
live debut on a new network. Right now, there's no reason to expect an average, regular wrestling fan to be all that well versed in anything
outside of WWE that isn't NXT.
Granted, it's also 2016, and more information is more readily available to more people, but that's a hell of a different thing than any
significant percentage of wrestling viewers being fully engaged by ROH or NJ to the point that "The Bullet Club" really means anything other than
"that AJ Styles guy from TNA and a few other dudes."
I'll agree that if you pick the right audience/venue, AJ Styles would get a pop. If you do introductory vignettes and basically force the normal
everyday wrestling audience to look it up, you might even create some buzz for them coming in as a faction. Maybe. But even that admission on my part
requires picking the "right" spot, a "smart" town (e.g. "the NXT factor"), which is already a subset of the universe of American wrestling fans
who attend shows/tapings ("how audiences react in Tupelo").
And even THAT is an even smaller subset of the however many millions are out there who just assume all wrestling is WWE, and vice versa. It's
2016, and they've now had fully 15 years to build up that narrative with anyone who isn't going out of their way and trying extra hard to
fight it.
My point is people know who AJ Styles is and at worst, they've heard of NJPW and The Bullet Club.
"Heard of" and "care about" are two wildly different things. You'd be hard-pressed to find too many Americans who haven't heard of
this new Star Wars thingie. And yet, for every one person who's seen the movie, there are still about 8 who haven't (possibly more; 42% of
people who have seen it have seen it multiple times, but there's no hard data on how many have seen it twice versus 15 times). If the Bullet
Club debuts and 1 out of the 8 fans who have HEARD OF them pop, does it really make a sound? To say nothing of whatever percentage of fans
haven't?
None of this is to say there's something wrong with being a fan of non-WWE wrestling, and trying to advocate for it, or whatever... as always,
when I say this stuff, it's not like it's a personal attack. There is good stuff out there, and if the Bullet Club came to WWE,
you'd basically have 2 of WWE top 5 workers who are rookies. And if you wish that the mainstream, when exposed to this goodnesss, will accept
it, that's OK, too.
But it seems like too many of the hardcore indie type fans have this mindset of "Well, we decided it was good, so just put it out there and everybody
else will instantly like it, too, because we said so." And that's just as demonstrably false as the Vince/Dunn mindset of picking what THEY
like and pushing it hard. Things have to packaged and presented with the audience in mind. Not YOU (whether "you" is you, Dev, or if "you" is
Vince), but the vastness that is US.
If it's good, chances are better it'll catch on. But even then, CM Punk needed 18 months before he got his mainstream buy-in against Hardy
(and that's giving him the benefit of NOT counting his time in "ECW"), and Bryan was about on the same timetable (again, not counting
"NXT"). Both had to put in the time, and both had the benefit of MitB, too, which is a pretty useful hook. So anytime I see this groupthink where
it's perfectly reasonable for AJ Styles to win the Royal Rumble or otherwise participate in a WM Main Event, I get understandly perturbed.
Because Punk and Bryan are more accurate comps for AJ Styles than, say, 2012 Brock Lesnar or whatever people are thinking....
Rick
Paddlefoot
Rocco Rock of Jabroni
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posted on 1-8-2016 at 11:39 PM
* the injury wave continues with the gals now, with Paige and Dana Brooke rumoured (along with the already mentioned Sasha Banks) to be hurting as
well as Nattie being confirmed to have been rehabbing and injury from back in November
You know, everyone says it's not supposed to make sense, like that's the whole point, dude. And I'm just saying, you know,
that's like an excuse for lazy storytelling. Just don't sell me shite and tell me it's gold, all right? I might be stoned, but
I'm not high. You know what I mean?
- Cassidy from Preacher, commenting on The Big Lebowski and/or professional wrestling
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posted on 1-9-2016 at 05:23 AM
Re the New Japan thing: The Shield got no reaction on their debut. Things worked out pretty well for them.
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williamssl
Steers and Queers
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posted on 1-9-2016 at 07:07 PM
Not sure what part of the overall discussion this is in response to, so apologies if where I think you were going with this is off from what you
intended.
I don't think anyone here doesn't see some sort of upside from all this. No one (to my knowledge) has said "this will fall flat and go
nowhere at all ever". There is potential for WWE to totally fuck it up (that Balor club thing is a nice example of what that could look like), but
that's in WWE's hands.
The debate has been around what degree of insta-pop these guys will get on their debut, ranging from "OMG YOU COULD PUT STYLES IN THE RUMBLE AS
SURPRISE ENTRANT AND THE ROOF WILL BLOW OFF WHEN HE COMES OUT AND THEN HE WINS AND GOES ON TO MAIN EVENT WM AND IT'S THE BIGGEST WM EVER NOW"
(or something)....to "maybe 10-20% of people recognize him/them out the gate..."
EDIT: Dom - your "free from Orton" vacation may end sooner than we were all thinking
quote:THE VIPER, THE APEX PREDATOR....OMG RKO OUT OF NOWHERE
"I see many of you think I need neck surgery. I heard weeks ago that Meltzer stated it as a fact. I don't keep up with gossip, so I
didn't think anything of it. As far as my shoulder, I was cut on 12/8. Things are ahead of schedule and I'm pumped to get back to work. As
far as my neck, and I'm only debunking this 'fact' for the sincerely concerned fans, I DONT need neck surgery. Remember, unless you
hear about it on WWE.com, you really should take everything you read online concerning pro wrestling with a grain of salt."
[Edited on 1-9-2016 by williamssl]
Don't Mess With Texas
nOOb
The Man
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posted on 1-9-2016 at 07:58 PM
I'm 100% positive AJ will get a good reaction if he debuts at the Rumble (maybe not "roof blowing off" good but good by WWE standards).
Same for Samoa Joe. It's just how big of a deal WWE makes it that plays into it. The benefit to debuting either guy at the Rumble (and,
really, this would be a prime time to throw in the phrase "as opposed to the debut of the Shield where the live audience had no idea what was going
on") is that the Titantron is going to display the name of the entrant. That way, the fans at the Rumble who don't immediately recognize them
by appearance will recognize them by name (whereas with the Shield debut, you had three guys wearing gear none of them wore in NXT, so the only people
this was made a big deal to was the viewing audience). And, with the job WWE.com has done of hyping both guys, I would say what little portion of the
audience that attends a Big Four PPV and isn't at least somewhat informed is going to be aware of who these guys are and will fall in line. At
that point in time, it's up to Cole and JBL to make a big deal out of them being on WWE TV, which informs the portion of the Network viewing
audience that is uniformed (which, at the very least, they are good at that), and then you've got foundations laid for a good start to the run
(which WWE will inevitably blow because that's kind of their thing).
"The Seahawks are cool. Me and Tubby here hung out with them once at a Bruno Mars concert."-Jay and Silent Bob representing the Broncos on FOX NFL
Sunday.
Paddlefoot
Rocco Rock of Jabroni
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posted on 1-9-2016 at 08:22 PM
Conversely:
Cole: The ring's being invaded? Who are these guys beating down Roman Reigns? Who's that guy with the big "AJ" tattoo on his torso?
JBL: Oh mah gawd Maggle, that's BJ Fashionz, the hottest free agent on the market!!!!!
Don't mock. It could happen exactly this way.
You know, everyone says it's not supposed to make sense, like that's the whole point, dude. And I'm just saying, you know,
that's like an excuse for lazy storytelling. Just don't sell me shite and tell me it's gold, all right? I might be stoned, but
I'm not high. You know what I mean?
- Cassidy from Preacher, commenting on The Big Lebowski and/or professional wrestling
First 9
Man of a Thousand Holds
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posted on 1-9-2016 at 08:23 PM
First Brock match of 2016
punkerhardcore
American Dream
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posted on 1-9-2016 at 09:17 PM
quote:Originally posted by OORick
So anytime I see this groupthink where it's perfectly reasonable for AJ Styles to win the Royal Rumble or otherwise participate in a WM Main
Event, I get understandly perturbed.
I agree with this, I really do... because as much as I personally would love to see AJ Styles come in and tear the house down and win the championship
in a truly "holy fucking shit" moment, I realize how unrealistic that is for the WWE as a company to do. Casual fans, kids, etc. would just sit
there wondering what the hell happened, and it may not get the reaction they want.
But at the same time... I feel like they have to do something crazy this year with the Rumble, and a scenario like that (or similar) would at
least be enough to generate some buzz, and interest in the product that has been extremely lacking lately. Maybe draw some eyeballs back to Raw the
next night that haven't been watching in a while because the product has been so painfully dull.
Plus I a title change at the Rumble is doable since the person who wins doesn't necessarily have to walk into Mania as the champion. And the
person who wins also wouldn't have to be made into Roman's bitch since they could pull a "haha Roman, you lost, fuck your rematch
clause" story with Vince/HHH.
The last two Rumbles have been total fucking thuds. And if the plan this year is for the most obvious outcome-- which is for Roman to overcome the
odds-- that'll get ugly again fast. If it gets to a final six or seven, and Reigns is one of them, people are gonna see the writing on the wall
and boo the hell out of him yet again.
Is everyone mad here?
Of course they are, and you are too... otherwise, you wouldn't have come here.
GodEatGod
Showstopper
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posted on 1-9-2016 at 10:07 PM
quote:Originally posted by punkerhardcore
The last two Rumbles have been total fucking thuds. And if the plan this year is for the most obvious outcome-- which is for Roman to overcome the
odds-- that'll get ugly again fast. If it gets to a final six or seven, and Reigns is one of them, people are gonna see the writing on the wall
and boo the hell out of him yet again.
Well, that would be dumb. He's going to be one of the final six or seven, probably at the very least one of the Final Four. Whether they
actually go with the storyline of Roman overcoming all the odds and somehow retaining the title, they're going to at least tease that through
the match itself. The only alternative is HHH absolutely destroying him with a sledgehammer before he even makes it to the ring (which could work,
but I don't see it for whatever reason).
I think Brock is still the favorite to win it all, honestly, with Reigns having to go through HHH at Fastlane to get his rematch at WM.
[Edited on 1-9-2016 by GodEatGod]
[Edited on 1-9-2016 by GodEatGod]
"It is an impressively arrogant move to conclude that just because you don't like something, it is empirically not good. I don't like
Chinese food, but I don't write articles trying to prove it doesn't exist." - Tina Fey
Cherokee Jack
Man of a Thousand Holds
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posted on 1-9-2016 at 11:23 PM
quote:Originally posted by williamssl
The debate has been around what degree of insta-pop these guys will get on their debut, ranging from "OMG YOU COULD PUT STYLES IN THE RUMBLE AS
SURPRISE ENTRANT AND THE ROOF WILL BLOW OFF WHEN HE COMES OUT AND THEN HE WINS AND GOES ON TO MAIN EVENT WM AND IT'S THE BIGGEST WM EVER NOW"
(or something)....to "maybe 10-20% of people recognize him/them out the gate..."
Factors that work in AJ's favor if he's a surprise Rumble entrant:
1) The Rumble is in Orlando, where's he's done the majority of his work in America over the last decade.
2) The Rumble, like Wrestlemania but not to the same extent, tends to draw a "smarter" crowd that will likely mean he's recognized by a larger
portion of the audience than at any random Raw.
Working against AJ:
1) He hasn't been on real national TV (other than Ring of Honor's cup of coffee with Destination America) in over two years.
2) The rumor buzz around him has gotten so loud that it could take a lot off of the 'surprise' factor. Frankly at this point it seems
like short of something happening like RoH or NJPW announcing that they've re-signed him, it'll be more of a surprise if he's
not in the Rumble.
If/when he shows up at the Rumble, I expect him to get a good pop from the crowd. Not a Mankind's first title win/Jericho debut pop, but a good
respectable pop from a crowd where he'll be recognized by at least half the crowd. And if the announcers go out of their way to put over how
good he is (as in, Michael Cole cannot go into Daniel-Bryan-in-NXT mode talking about how AJ is just some loser who wrestles in high school gyms and
is loved by internet nerds), they could have themselves a superstar in short order.
And as far as their names go, I know WWE always wants to own everyone's names, and in the rest of their cases a name change would be fine
(Gallows could just go back to being Luke again, unless two Lukes would be too confusing to us simpletons), but they made an exception for Samoa Joe,
and it feels like they kinda have to make another one for AJ. Tattoo aside, he's a guy who's just made too big of a name in this country
to change it.
I'm Cherokee Jack!
OOMike
The Great One
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posted on 1-10-2016 at 01:06 AM
As someone who has not seen AJ wrestle at all, can someone explain how AJ coming in, debuting at the Rumble and walking out the champion is not worse
than rushing the title on Reigns, who was on NXT and with Shield for months, yet was blasted as being rushed?
Not to mention piss off the rest of the roster that has been busting ass on the lower/mid card trying to move up.
Prejudices are rarely overcome by argument; not being founded in reason they cannot be destroyed by logic � Tryon Edwards
Never let the facts interfere with a good rant.
The only OO columnist that has never written a column.
punkerhardcore
American Dream
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posted on 1-10-2016 at 01:21 AM
A.) I would be a truly shocking moment that would bring back the "anything can happen" stuff they've been pushing forever, but hasn't
happened in just as long.
B.) Saying AJ Styles is a better wrestler than Roman Reigns is like saying Jupiter is bigger than a pea. Plus, this isn't some guy who has only
been wrestling for two or three years. Unlike some people.
C.) It wouldn't be forever. Hell, he could lose it the next night on Raw even. Not like he would be pushed as the supposed face of the
company, nor would anyone expect him to be. BUT it would be a neat moment to draw viewers in.
Like I said, I don't think in a million years it would happen, but this company has been losing viewership, and has had two shitty prior Rumble
outcomes. They need to have the stones to try something once in a while.
Doesn't even need to be AJ... although what a way to induce him to the WWE crowd. But they've gotta do SOMETHING interesting this year
with the Rumble.
Personally, I've always wished someone completely unexpected would win it. Doesn't have to be a complete jobber or anything, but someone
you don't see coming at all. It's always so damn telegraphed to death... there's never any doubt which guy (or maybe a toss up
between two) will win it.
Is everyone mad here?
Of course they are, and you are too... otherwise, you wouldn't have come here.
nOOb
The Man
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posted on 1-10-2016 at 01:28 AM
quote:Originally posted by OOMike
As someone who has not seen AJ wrestle at all, can someone explain how AJ coming in, debuting at the Rumble and walking out the champion is not worse
than rushing the title on Reigns, who was on NXT and with Shield for months, yet was blasted as being rushed?
Well, it's a bad idea regardless, but AJ has been wrestling since the late 90's, honing his craft all around the world, obtained exposure
with a company that, at the time, was a nationally televised #2 to WWE (he's actually done that twice: WCW and TNA), and was able to develop
the ability to connect with a television audience (albeit one lower than WWE) in multiple variations of character (from regular babyface to goofy heel
sidekick to lovable tweener-sidekick to broody tweener loner).
Reigns, on the other hand, has been in the game for five years, all under variations of the WWE banner, graduating from NXT to the Shield in WWE with
the tag "Green, but he could be good on his own someday", left the Shield without actually developing any real character other than "the
group's tough guy that prefers to speak with his actions rather than words", was on the cusp of starting to develop a personality before being
derailed by injury for a good chunk of his first year as a single's star, before returning and, without so much as a match under his belt since
said return, was hailed as the "Best Wrestler of the Year" by WWE, hyped up to win and then won a main event he wasn't ready to win, either
with his lack of move set or character, was put against and over an opponent with the skillset to make anyone look good and that everyone WANTED to
see win that main event in the next PPV main event (Daniel Bryan) in a match that wasn't even slightly memorable other than the fact WWE just
expected everyone would buy into him after that, had such a poor reaction leading up to the Wrestlemania main event that they seemed to call an
audible the day of to give the title to an option both WWE and the fans could actually work with (Seth Rollins), and then appeared to spend the
remainder of the year kind of adding to his moveset (I noticed the multiple T-Bone suplex thing....that's about it) to have matches that I would
consider to be "passable", not really fleshing out a character, but still being treated as the future of the business.
It doesn't make AJ a better option, giving him a title on day one of his WWE tenure is a horrible idea that would backfire in the worst way, but
Roman Reigns' tenure hasn't exactly been that much of a better idea. It's on WWE that that's where we are, since the best
option would be to let two established guys fight for the title while Reigns feuded with someone else, but since WWE has opted to neuter most of their
new projects in favor of building the Cena and Orton brands, that's what happens when you only have three guys that have an audience connection
and they all get hurt at once.
"The Seahawks are cool. Me and Tubby here hung out with them once at a Bruno Mars concert."-Jay and Silent Bob representing the Broncos on FOX NFL
Sunday.
Cherokee Jack
Man of a Thousand Holds
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posted on 1-10-2016 at 02:06 AM
Yeah, for the pop that AJ *might* get at the Rumble, putting the title on him day 1 would be a bad, bad idea. But he will be recognized by a sizable
portion of the audience, and there will probably be many more who have heard the name "AJ Styles" but haven't seen him, and if you send him
out there and give him a chance to show what he can do, eliminate a few guys and look really strong before getting tossed out, you could create an
upper-tier superstar overnight.
And yes, there are a lot of midcarders who are capable and have been working their ass off for that kind of spot, but sadly WWE has made it clear for
many of them that they simply don't see them at that level. And booking them in kind has left several of them as kinda scorched earth, where
even if WWE suddenly decided they loved them and pushed them to the moon, a lot of the audience wouldn't buy it and would just be waiting for
John Cena to come back and put them in their place.
I'm Cherokee Jack!
First 9
Man of a Thousand Holds
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posted on 1-10-2016 at 05:23 AM
I think WWE is just concered about owning the name more than anything, so if they felt AJ Styles was good enough, they'd probably just change it
to AJ Stiles or something.
I feel Reigns is losing for the same reason he got cashed in by Sheamus. They'd be nothing left for him to do afterwards. Wins Rumble, beats HHH
at Fastlane, beats Lesnar at Mania, then what? It's like when Cena would drop the Title to guys like Sheamus and Del Rio. He had cleared out all
the worthwhile opposition so they'd have hin drop it while protecting him to let him feud with part-timers and special attractions. In the mean
time they set up a whole new group of heels for him to decimate later on.
The only option left is turning Ambrose and I mean come on, the Main Event face side is already thin.
SpiNNeR72
Showstopper
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posted on 1-10-2016 at 04:43 PM
The problem for WWE with bringing Bryan back now is that they have been holding off so long, that if he comes back now and *does* get badly injured,
they will be accused of having him wrestle when it wasn't safe.
On the Bullet Club thing - sure, a hell of a lot of wrestling fans now know about NJPW and The Bullet Club, but until the last few days, would any
casual fan have been able to name a member other than possibly Styles?
AJ to main roster, the rest to NXT to form the Balor Club, and you have a nice setup for the future when they come up to either beatdown or join
Styles.
There may be a lack of depth on the main roster but plenty of NXT folks to fill that gap while the new guys adjust and get over in NXT.
G-Spot
"El Diablo"
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posted on 1-10-2016 at 08:31 PM
Santana Garrett, who has worked a few recent NXT tapings, tweeted this....
"Through the many years of what I thought was 'searching', was really the process of 'awakening' #WakeUp "
"G-Spot rocks the g-spot!!!
**Ghandi (Clone High)**
gobbledygooker
Sister Act 2
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posted on 1-10-2016 at 09:35 PM
Well that would be cool. Speaking of things that have been spinning their fucking wheels the past three years, that would at least be SOMETHING
interesting for the Wyatt family.
"Hulk Hogan have the sex with some dumb bitch on the TV. The girl smart if she make the $$ from his bald ass but she also desperate to have sex with
the howdy doody like Hulk Hogan. He worse than Mel Gibson and I think now %10000 he prove he have grasshopper dick and raisin balls." - The Iron
Sheik
