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Poll: Ultimate Match ShOOwdOOwn Talk
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Author: Subject: Ultimate Match ShOOwdOOwn Talk
GodEatGod
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posted on 7-23-2016 at 08:01 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Is there a good site to find dates and shows for matches? I can remember matches but have a terrible head for dates (and at least one match I wanna nominate is a TV match)





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the goon
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posted on 7-23-2016 at 09:58 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
Is there a good site to find dates and shows for matches? I can remember matches but have a terrible head for dates (and at least one match I wanna nominate is a TV match)


I just used Wikipedia and Google. If I knew what PPV the match was from, I typed that PPV into Wikipedia to get the date. If it was a TV match or a match that I couldn't remember what PPV it was from, I just keyword-searched on Google. There may be a less tedious way to do it, but I was able to pretty easily find the dates of all 25 of my match nominees using the Wiki/Google combo.





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posted on 7-23-2016 at 11:50 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
When in doubt we could always cull from WWE's 100 Matches You Need To See Before You Die that I went full ass-burger on a couple years ago. The reformatting of WWE's webpage kinda fucked up the links, but still directs you to the list proper.

Looking back at it, geez, it's amazing what one is capable of when he just really wants to avoid his girlfriend. Funny thing is, I'm single now and my productivity has gone to shit.





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Matte
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posted on 7-24-2016 at 12:08 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I'm going to put these here now, I'll think about adding another nine.*


1. Christopher Daniels vs. AJ Styles vs. Samoa Joe - TNA World Heavyweight Championship - TNA Unbreakable, 9/11/05

2. Matt & Jeff Hardy vs. Edge & Christian - T.I.T. Ladder Match - WWF No Mercy - 10/17/99

3. Bubba Ray & D-Von Dudley vs. Matt & Jeff Hardy vs. Edge & Christian - WWF Tag Team Championship Triangle Ladder Match - WWF WrestleMania 2000 - 4/2/00

4. Bubba Ray & D-Von Dudley vs. Matt & Jeff Hardy vs. Edge & Christian - WWF Tag Team Championship Triangle TLC Match - WWF WrestleMania X-Seven - 4/1/01

5. Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar - WWE Championship - WrestleMania XIX - 3/30/03

6. Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar - WWE Championship 60-Minute Ironman Match - WWE SmackDown - 9/18/03

7. Kurt Angle vs. Shane McMahon - Street Fight - WWF King of the Ring - 6/24/01

8. Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit - WWE Championship - WWE Royal Rumble - 1/19/03

9. John Cena vs. CM Punk - #1 Contender's Match - WWE Raw - 2/25/13

10. John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels - WWE Raw - 4/23/07

11. The Undertaker vs. Mankind - Hell in a Cell - WWF King of the Ring - 6/28/98

12. Bobby Roode vs. Austin Aries - TNA World Heavyweight Championship - TNA Destination X - 7/8/12

13. AJ Styles vs. Low Ki vs. Psicosis vs. Jerry Lynn - NWA-TNA X Championship Four-Way Double Elimination Match - TNA Weekly PPV - 6/26/02

14. Petey Williams vs. AJ Styles vs. Chris Sabin - TNA X Division Championship Ultimate X Match - TNA Final Resolution - 1/16/05

15. Dolph Ziggler vs. Alberto Del Rio - World Heavyweight Championship - WWE Payback - 6/16/13

16. Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Booker T vs. Kane vs. Chris Jericho - World Heavyweight Championship Elimination Chamber Match - WWE Survivor Series - 11/17/02


*EDIT: goon's quote made me realize my numbering was off.

[Edited on 7-24-2016 by Matte]





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the goon
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posted on 7-24-2016 at 06:14 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Matte
I'm going to put these here now, I'll think about adding another ten.


1. Christopher Daniels vs. AJ Styles vs. Samoa Joe - TNA World Heavyweight Championship - TNA Unbreakable, 9/11/05

2. Matt & Jeff Hardy vs. Edge & Christian - T.I.T. Ladder Match - WWF No Mercy - 10/17/99

3. Bubba Ray & D-Von Dudley vs. Matt & Jeff Hardy vs. Edge & Christian - WWF Tag Team Championship Triangle Ladder Match - WWF WrestleMania 2000 - 4/2/00

3. Bubba Ray & D-Von Dudley vs. Matt & Jeff Hardy vs. Edge & Christian - WWF Tag Team Championship Triangle TLC Match - WWF WrestleMania X-Seven - 4/1/01

4. Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar - WWE Championship - WrestleMania XIX - 3/30/03

5. Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar - WWE Championship 60-Minute Ironman Match - WWE SmackDown - 9/18/03

6. Kurt Angle vs. Shane McMahon - Street Fight - WWF King of the Ring - 6/24/01

7. Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit - WWE Championship - WWE Royal Rumble - 1/19/03

8. John Cena vs. CM Punk - #1 Contender's Match - WWE Raw - 2/25/13

9. John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels - WWE Raw - 4/23/07

10. The Undertaker vs. Mankind - Hell in a Cell - WWF King of the Ring - 6/28/98

11. Bobby Roode vs. Austin Aries - TNA World Heavyweight Championship - TNA Destination X - 7/8/12

12. AJ Styles vs. Low Ki vs. Psicosis vs. Jerry Lynn - NWA-TNA X Championship Four-Way Double Elimination Match - TNA Weekly PPV - 6/26/02

13. Petey Williams vs. AJ Styles vs. Chris Sabin - TNA X Division Championship Ultimate X Match - TNA Final Resolution - 1/16/05

14. Dolph Ziggler vs. Alberto Del Rio - World Heavyweight Championship - WWE Payback - 6/16/13

15. Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Booker T vs. Kane vs. Chris Jericho - World Heavyweight Championship Elimination Chamber Match - WWE Survivor Series - 11/17/02


That's why I'm looking forward to this particular shOOdown, because you listed ten completely different matches than I did, but all equally awesome. This is going to be fun to debate.

Though apparently Matte and I are the only ones currently interested in this.





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janerd75
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posted on 7-25-2016 at 08:53 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Matte, sorry if I missed it, but what's the timetable for getting a list compiled?

Also, by looking at the list I'm guessing Benoit is acceptable for selection? Not a judgment call either way 'cause I don't want to start that hullabalooza up. At this point I figure he was historically part of things, he did wrestling stuff, and should his matches win or lose in the shOOwdOOwn he carries around the eternal asterisk regardless.

And on that note, how would you suggest I categorize his Best-of-Seven with Booker T (the WCW one) or should I just leave it out for simplicity's sake?

http://prowrestling.wikia.com/wiki/Chris_Benoit_v_Booker_T_%22Best_Of_Seven_Series_Match%22

http://www.dailymotion.com/playlist/xl2wr_WCWRULES4LYF_benoit-vs-booker-best-of-seven-98/1#video=x4tram





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Matte
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posted on 7-25-2016 at 11:24 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
No date in mind to start this one off yet; it all depends on when we get enough matches in to actually run it. Due to that, this is the first one of these showdowns that is totally dependent on interest/participation from yOOu guys. I can't stress that enough, so thanks to goon and janerd for being the first (and so far, only) ones to jump in.

Nobody's matches are off-limits. Benoit made it to the fifth round of the Ultimate Wrestler Showdown and probably would've made it further if he hadn't been such a jerk before he died, but that's just how things went. He was still included, and he'll be included in this one.


The "best-of-blank series" thing is something that could probably be debated. In actuality, it's just several different matches being connected in thought by a gimmick. And while the same could be said for multiple-fall matches or Three Stages of Hell, the falls in these happen consecutively whereas the falls in best-of series matches are typically days or weeks apart. But I'd listen to reasoning either way.





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GodEatGod
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posted on 7-26-2016 at 12:50 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Okay, this is my list. It's by no way definitive. I wrestled with it a lot and tried to include a bit of variety. Definitely some crossover with other lists, but that's to be expected and I had to just STOP TWEAKING and post it. No particular order.

1. Triple H vs. Cactus Jack - Street Fight (Royal Rumble 2000)

2. Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio Jr - Title vs. Mask (Halloween Havoc 1997)

3. Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker - Hell In A Cell (Badd Blood 1997)

4. Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker (Wrestlemania 25)

5. Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho - Unsanctioned (Unforgiven 2008)

6. John Cena vs. CM Punk - WWE Title (Money in the Bank 2011)

7. Motor City Machine Guns vs. Beer Money - Best of 5 finale - 2/3 falls (TNA Impact Sept

2010)

8. Undertaker vs. Jeff Hardy - Ladder Match - WWE/F title (RAW January 2002)

9. Triple H vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin - Three Stages of Hell (No Way Out 2001)

10. Sting vs. Cactus Jack - Falls Count Anywhere (Beach Blast 1992)

11. Bret Hart vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin - Submissions Match (Wrestlemania 13)

12. KUSHIDA vs. Kyle O'Reilly (Best of Super Juniors 2016)

13. Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Sami Zayn (NXT Takeover Dallas)

14. Magnum TA vs. Tully Blanchard - Steel Cage "I Quit" match (Starrcade 1985)

15. Samoa Joe Vs. Aj Styles vs. Christopher Daniels (TNA Unbreakable 2005)

16. Roddy Piper vs. Greg Valentine - Dog Collar Match (Starrcade 1983)

17. The Shield vs. Team Hell No/Randy Orton (Smackdown June 2013)

18. Rey Misterio Jr vs Psichosis - 2/3 Falls (ECW Hardcore TV 1995)

19. Diamond Dallas Page vs. Randy Savage - No DQ (Spring Stampede 1997)

20. The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family (Elimination Chamber 2014)

21. CM Punk vs. John Cena - Number One Contender (RAW February 2013)

22. Johnny Mundo vs. Prince Puma - Iron Man Match for the Lucha Underground Title (Lucha

Underground June 2015)

23. AJ Styles vs. Abyss - Cage Match (TNA Lockdown 2005)

24. Kurt Angle vs. Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania 21)

25. Mick Foley vs. Edge - Hardcore (Wrestlemania 22)





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TexShark300
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posted on 7-30-2016 at 10:27 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
When I think of Big Matches, I think of moments from that match you remember. Example. The Shelton/HBK Raw match from several years ago was a fine match. But what do we all remember from that match? The Springboard Superkick. This is how I make my list. I think of the moments that made an impact on me. They might not be a technical classic, but they will be matches we all remember.


Andre v Hogan WM3 - Irresistible Force v Immovable Object. The Slam heard around the world.

Steamboat v Savage, WM3 - Stole the show at the biggest show of them all

Tully v Magnum Starrcade 85 - I Quit in a cage wooden chair leg to the eye socket. as brutal a match as I ever saw.

AMW v XXX, Turning Point 04, the first TNA Six Sides of Steel - Elix Skipper walks the cage & 'ranas Chris Harris.

Royal Rumble 92. - "It's not fair to Flair"

Team WCW vs The Outsiders Bash at the Beach 96 - The Legdrop heard around the world

Flair v Sting - Clash of the Champions 1 - The Match that made Sting

Bret v Shawn WM12 Iron Man - Sudden Death!

Flair v HBK - WM 24 - "I'm sorry, I love you. "

Benoit v HHH v HBK Backlash 2004 - HBK taps.. to the Sharpshooter.... IN CANADA

HHH v HBK, Raw 29 Dec 03 - Sweet Chin Music 1.2.3 In San Antonio. Bischoff counted BOTH man's shoulders down. Loudest pop I ever heard on TV

Sting v Hogan, Starrcade 97. Screwy ending aside, THe Feel good Moment WCW waited over a year to get.

Kerry Von Erich v Flair, Parade of Champions 84 - Fulfilling David's promise.

Kerry & Kevin Von Erich vs Gino Hernandez & Chris Adams 5 Oct 85 - Hair v Hair as the Dynamic Duo gets their due.

Midnight Express vs Rock & Roll Express Feb 86 Superstars on the Superstation - First NWA Tag Title change between the two, but really you could pick any of their matches for me.

The First War Games Match 4 July 87 -

Road Warriors v Midnight Express, Scaffold Starrcade 86 - Again, the mathc itself is not much, but the visual of Cornette falling off the scaffold at the end is worth it.

TLC 2 HArdys/Dudleys/Edge&Christian; WM 17 - The Mid Air Spear.



There have been a couple of drafts done on this topic. Scouring these threads will surely turn up some gems.

http://oowrestling.com/OOForums/viewthread.php?tid=26045
http://natecorbitt.proboards.com/thread/6599/supercard-wrestling-draft





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posted on 7-31-2016 at 04:11 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
1. The 1992 Royal Rumble Match. WOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
2. Dustin Rhodes/Ricky Steamboat vs Arn Anderson and Larry Zybzko- Clash of the Champions 17

3. Chris Benoit/Chris Jericho vs HHH/Steve Austin- 5/21/01 Raw
4. Bret Hart vs Owen Hart- Wrestlemania 10
5. Hart Foundation vs Steve Austin/Golddust/Ken Shamrock/Legion of Doom- Canadian Stampede

6. Shawn Michaels vs Mankind- IYH: Mind Games
7. Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker Hell in the Cell- IYH: Bad Blood
8. Randy Savage vs Ricky Steamboat- WM 3
9. Randy Savage vs Ultimate Warrior- WM 7
10. Randy Savage vs Ric Flair- WM 8
11. Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat- Chi Town Rumble
12. Ric Flair vs Vader- Starcade 93
13. Steve Austin vs The Rock- WM 17
14. The Hollywood Blondes vs Ric Flair/Arn Anderson- Clash of the Champions 23
15. Sting/Nikita Koloff/Ricky Steamboat/Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes vs Rick Rude/Arn Anderson/Steve Austin/Larry Zybsko/Bobby Eaton War Games- Wrestle War 92

16. Sting vs Vader- Great American Bash 92
17. Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon, Ladder Match- Summerslam 95
18. Dean Malenko vs Rey Mysterio- Great American Bash 96
19. Dean Malenko vs Chris Benoit- Hog Wild 96
20. Cactus Jack vs HHH- Royal Rumble 2000
21. Kurt Angle vs Shane McMahon- King of the Ring 2001
22. Eddie Guerrero vs Brock Lesnar- No Way Out 2004
23. Eddie Guerrero vs Kurt Angle- WM 20
24. Magnum TA vs Tully Blanchard- Starcade 1985

And just because I have occasionally a perverse sense of humor and to see how many votes this gets, the worst main event in wrestling history:

25. Hulk Hogan/Randy Savage vs Ric Flair/Arn Anderson/Meng/Barbarian/Kevin Sullivan/Lex Luger/Ultimate Solution/Z Gangsta- Uncensored 96

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posted on 7-31-2016 at 10:01 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sportsguy
25. Hulk Hogan/Randy Savage vs Ric Flair/Arn Anderson/Meng/Barbarian/Kevin Sullivan/Lex Luger/Ultimate Solution/Z Gangsta- Uncensored 96


I had never actually seen that match in it's entirety, so after seeing you mention it here I looked it up on the WWE Network last night. Holy shit is it BAD. I could only get through about 10 minutes or so before turning it off. Thank God Hogan turned heel a few months after that match, because I think they had reached the limit of what Hulkamania could do in WCW by that point.

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posted on 8-1-2016 at 12:26 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
It seriously is the worst main event in wrestling history. From the workrate, to the booking, to just a lack of overall logic. How did Arn and Flair get out of the cage? WHERE THE FUCK DID MENG AND THE BARBARIAN VANISH TO? Why did Arn change his outfit literally mid fucking match? Just god fucking awful.
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posted on 8-1-2016 at 03:08 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sportsguy
It seriously is the worst main event in wrestling history. From the workrate, to the booking, to just a lack of overall logic. How did Arn and Flair get out of the cage? WHERE THE FUCK DID MENG AND THE BARBARIAN VANISH TO? Why did Arn change his outfit literally mid fucking match? Just god fucking awful.


Pretty spot-on analysis. I fast-forwarded through some of the match and when I saw that they had somehow gotten out of the cage and were brawling outside, that's when I called it quits.

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williamssl
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posted on 8-1-2016 at 04:38 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Which means we rally and carry it to the elite eight!





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posted on 8-1-2016 at 03:31 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Far from a workrate classic, but Ultimate Warrior vs. Hulk Hogan at Wrestlemania in a Champion vs. Champion mach was HUGE in terms of importance at the time. Every kid was either Team Warrior or Team Hogan.

I nominate it for the list.





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posted on 8-1-2016 at 06:24 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Matte,
Looks like most of the matches listed are on WWE Network. I can hear Dev already WWE BIAS!

here are some that aren't:

Thesz v. Gagne NWA Championship Chicago circa 1951
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvv1wvegguA

Inoki v. Robinson NWF heavyweight Title Dec 75
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1oT-YtmHdI

Sammartino v. Hansen Steel Cage (post broken neck) Aug. 76
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXRSIQ1i9Qk

Caddock v. Stecher Jan 1920 (last shoot title fight! LOL)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18wMsQsLMGI

Maeda v. Andre (Maeda shoots) May 86
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2dgb17_andre-the-giant-vs-akira-maeda-5-26-1986-shoot-match_sport

Terry Funk v. Hansen Sept. 82 AJPW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVPrcvlioGE

Giant Baba (NWA_I Champ) vs. Bruno Sammartino WWWF champ July 67
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTLT-vfX2EY

Ed Lewis v. Dick Shikat NYSAC Heavyweight Championship June 1932
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bLgoqDdRCM





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janerd75
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posted on 8-1-2016 at 07:53 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Still dinking around compiling my list, but I just wanted to make a note about the inclusion of the Best-of-Seven betwixt Benoit and Booker T. Unless someone can be convincing otherwise, I think it'd be easier to leave it out. While an Ironman Match or a 2-Out-Of-3 Falls type match happens on one card, the BoS were individual matches that took place over a few weeks. If it were selected for inclusion, then another case could be made for parsing it down even more by trying to figure out which of the seven were the best. My wrasslin' autism isn't that strong to wander down that rabbit hole.

However, the reverse certainly could be acceptable by selecting individual matches from that series rather than the series as a whole. So, on that note and for clarification, again I'd say no to multicard matches or tournaments in their totality, but of course individual matches from those places are fair game.

Also, for the sake of throwing an important yet horrible match out there, can't do no better (worse?) than Hogan vs Goldberg in the Georgia Dome on 7/6/98.

18 years ago. JFC.





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CCharger
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posted on 8-2-2016 at 12:53 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
At the risk of being accused of trolling, I officially nominate #TheFinalDeletion (Matt Hardy w/ Senor Benjamin, a fleet of evil drones, and a lawn mower vs. Jeff Hardy)





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GodEatGod
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posted on 8-5-2016 at 05:04 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
At the risk of being accused of trolling, I officially nominate #TheFinalDeletion (Matt Hardy w/ Senor Benjamin, a fleet of evil drones, and a lawn mower vs. Jeff Hardy)


Honestly, while it has no chance, I'd love to have it in there, just for the debates around it, especially if it gets paired up with some bone-dry pure workrate obscurity.





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the goon
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posted on 8-14-2016 at 08:18 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Just thought I'd bump this up to see what the status of the Ultimate Match Showdown was. Kind of thought we'd have more nominations at this point, but I'm always happy to nominate another 25 matches if needed.
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merc
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posted on 8-14-2016 at 07:53 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
The beat of seven was good. I'd think the series would win/lose on concept and best match.
Tossing Hart - Goldberg into the mix. The concussion match, if you wheeeel...





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CCharger
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posted on 8-18-2016 at 10:56 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Here are some more nominations:

1. Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect at SummerSlam 1991

2. Ric Flair vs. Barry Windham - CWF Battle of the Belts 2

3. WarGames - Great American Bash - 1997

4. Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat - NWA Chi-Town Rumble 1989

5. Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat - NWA Clash of the Champions 1989

6. Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat - NWA Wrestle War 1989

7. Ricky Steamboat vs. Ric Flair - NWA March 18, 1989

8. Genichiro Tenryu vs. Jumbo Tsuruta - AJPW Budokan Hall Show June 5, 1989

9. Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon - WWF WrestleMania 10

10. Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera - ECW Big Extreme Bash 1996 Night 2

11. Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera - WWA 1996

12. Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker - WWF In Your House: Badd Blood

13. Samoa Joe vs. A.J. Styles vs. Christopher Daniels - TNA Unbreakable 2005

14. Samoa Joe vs. Kenta Kobashi - ROH Joe vs. Kobashi

15. Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Shinsuke Nakamura - NJPW G1 Climax 25 Day 19

16. Jushin Thunder Liger vs. Great Sasuke - NJPW Super J Cup 1994

17. Bryan Danielson vs. Homicide - ROH Final Battle 2006

18. Ricochet vs. Ospreay 2016

19. Bruno Sammartino vs. Ivan Koloff - January 18, 1971

20. Chris Benoit vs. Great Sasuke - Super J Cup 1994





When it Reigns, it bores.

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CCharger
The Rowdy One






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posted on 9-28-2016 at 07:45 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
What is the status of this? Did I get high and miss it?





When it Reigns, it bores.

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Paddlefoot
Rocco Rock of Jabroni






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posted on 9-28-2016 at 08:18 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I'd suggest that it's a daunting task to assemble clips of the nominated matches. The ones that WWE doesn't have copyright over and are locked up, or is now Network-only, will probably only be available in highly pixelated snippets on YouTube that are of such poor quality that hundred year-old footage from World War One will look better. A lot of the great stuff from WCW, for example the classic Lenny Lane vs. Lodi match on Nitro that took everyone by surprise on how good it was, has disappeared altogether. This showdown could really be quite impossible to do.





You know, everyone says it's not supposed to make sense, like that's the whole point, dude. And I'm just saying, you know, that's like an excuse for lazy storytelling. Just don't sell me shite and tell me it's gold, all right? I might be stoned, but I'm not high. You know what I mean?
- Cassidy from Preacher, commenting on The Big Lebowski and/or professional wrestling

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CCharger
The Rowdy One






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posted on 9-28-2016 at 09:07 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
That's understandable. I just didn't want to miss it.

One Showdown, Matte might consider in the future (and it's possible it's already been done) is Feuds/Rivalries. Dusty/Flair, Austin/McMahon, Hart/Michaels....the mind boggles.





When it Reigns, it bores.

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