OORick
If There Was Ever a Time 
Posts 3785
Registered 12-27-2001 Location - The Birthplace of Aviation Member Is Offline Mood: The Time is Right
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| posted on 1-1-2018 at 10:17 PM |
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Assorted Newsbites 2018: The Rumors and the Crap, Part 1
It all begins again.
When we last left the rumors and the crappening, John Cena was rumored to be involved in something SUPER BIGGZTASTIC at WrestleMania. The Undertaker
and Batista were specifically mentioned. And then JonJon went and declared for the Royal Rumble, officially.
Also, Paige suffered some kind of neck trauma at a house show last week, and will not be cleared to compete by doctors until next Monday at the
earliest.
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Count Zero
The Rowdy One  
Posts 2585
Registered 1-29-2013 Location Canada East Member Is Offline Mood: re-broken
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| posted on 1-2-2018 at 12:29 AM |
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I don't have anything productive to add, but since it's a slow news day and I'm bored.... Might as well settle in here.
I'm open for biz at the above rates, to any & all interested individuals. I also work parties, bar/bat mitzvahs, and gallery openings. 
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CCharger
The Great One 
Posts 3848
Registered 7-21-2010 Member Is OnlineMood: Covfefe
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| posted on 1-2-2018 at 04:04 PM |
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* Shane McMahon is penciled in for a "major match at Wrestlemania"
* A Cena/Taker match is "not definite, but not off the table" according to Dave Meltzer which is the most Dave Meltzer thing ever.
"I almost hope he fucks off forever from OO now."
--Paddlefoot
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Frank Lloyd Wright
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1675
Registered 10-2-2007 Location Fallingwater Member Is Offline Mood: Megalomaniac
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| posted on 1-2-2018 at 04:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* Shane McMahon is penciled in for a "major match at Wrestlemania"
Shane needs to give it up. Why would you continue to take the place of a young and up-and-coming talent, at your biggest show of the year? His
jumping off a 40 foot high whatever has played itself out.
* A Cena/Taker match is "not definite, but not off the table" according to Dave Meltzer which is the most Dave Meltzer thing ever.
Nothing says exciting WM matchup like a "should be" retired wrestler vs. a "part time" wrestler. Again the WWE doing something a decade
late.
I have two ambitions in life: one is to drink every pub dry, the other is to sleep with every woman on earth -- Oliver Reed
American architect, interior designer, writer, educator, and wrestling fan.
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GodEatGod
Man of a Thousand Holds 
Posts 1626
Registered 1-14-2004 Location Monroe, LA Member Is Offline Mood: Weird
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| posted on 1-2-2018 at 04:28 PM |
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Basically, because everyone popped like nuts and freaked out when Shane showed up again two years ago, WWE has become convinced he's a draw and
a major star, so they want to put him on shows. That he's actually pretty terrible and is burning away that good will match by match
hasn't really entered their minds.
That said, if he's the only way we get them to clear Daniel Bryan, I'm fine with that.
"It is an impressively arrogant move to conclude that just because you don't like something, it is empirically not good. I don't like
Chinese food, but I don't write articles trying to prove it doesn't exist." - Tina Fey
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Frank Lloyd Wright
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1675
Registered 10-2-2007 Location Fallingwater Member Is Offline Mood: Megalomaniac
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| posted on 1-2-2018 at 04:31 PM |
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Don't get me wrong, I like Shane. But we do not need to see him as an in-ring performer anymore. Even if it means getting Daniel Bryan back in
the ring, you are doing him a major disservice by putting him opposite of lame, rabbit punching Shane.
I have two ambitions in life: one is to drink every pub dry, the other is to sleep with every woman on earth -- Oliver Reed
American architect, interior designer, writer, educator, and wrestling fan.
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DKBroiler
SpeciASSl CUMedian 
Posts 1928
Registered 1-25-2008 Location One Inch Right of Philly on a Map Member Is Offline Mood: Old
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| posted on 1-2-2018 at 04:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Frank Lloyd Wright
Don't get me wrong, I like Shane. But we do not need to see him as an in-ring performer anymore. Even if it means getting Daniel Bryan back in
the ring, you are doing him a major disservice by putting him opposite of lame, rabbit punching Shane.
Every Shane match is fun. That�s reason enough to do another one. Not everything has to be Savage v Steamboat. This is also why they should
continue to bring back guys like Goldberg instead of giving their spots to non-entity quasi up and comers. There are 11 months of the year to push
those guys. Mania is for the casuals, we all need to get used to it.
The worst matchup I could think of would be Shane v Goldberg and I 100% guarantee it would be more fun for 95% of the audience than a work rate
classic between two randoms. I loved Bate vs Dunn 2. Doesn�t mean it has any place on a Mania card. I�d much prefer a 2 minute Goldberg squash in
that environment.
Drew Gulak guy.
Former and current Braun Strowman guy.
0 Time Award Winner
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salmonjunkie
Best There Is Was or Ever Will Be 
Posts 11980
Registered 6-25-2002 Location Sunny Seattle, WA Member Is Offline Mood: Authoritized
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| posted on 1-2-2018 at 04:45 PM |
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If the WM match is Shane vs. Daniel Bryan, I would be all in for that.
quote:
Every Shane match is fun. That�s reason enough to do another one.
THIS
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DKBroiler
SpeciASSl CUMedian
Posts 1928
Registered 1-25-2008 Location One Inch Right of Philly on a Map Member Is Offline Mood: Old
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| posted on 1-2-2018 at 04:54 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Frank Lloyd Wright
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* Shane McMahon is penciled in for a "major match at Wrestlemania"
Shane needs to give it up. Why would you continue to take the place of a young and up-and-coming talent, at your biggest show of the year? His
jumping off a 40 foot high whatever has played itself out.
* A Cena/Taker match is "not definite, but not off the table" according to Dave Meltzer which is the most Dave Meltzer thing ever.
Nothing says exciting WM matchup like a "should be" retired wrestler vs. a "part time" wrestler. Again the WWE doing something a decade
late.
Please name the up and coming talent that could logically take his place? Shinsuke has shown nothing in 6 months. Fin weighs 165 pounds and is in
the wrong weight class. Elias was never supposed to happen. The only marquee feud Zayn has had was with his current tag partner. Roode is farther
away from main events now than Braun was 365 days ago (which it you felt like it could find posts from me saying he was 6 months away from it and I
nailed that one). Is there any other �young� or �new� guy that�s even worth mentioning?
It�s a totally viable argument to say that WWE should spend more time developing new hands throughout the year but none of these guys I mentioned has
the name value in WWE as Shane or any retired/part time Hall of Famer like Taker/Batista/Goldberg/Angle or Cena.
Seriously, book any fantasy WM card with just the every day roster and it would be underwhelming to all but hardcore fans and, to repeat, WM is for
the casuals, not the hardcore fans.
Drew Gulak guy.
Former and current Braun Strowman guy.
0 Time Award Winner
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Count Zero
The Rowdy One
Posts 2585
Registered 1-29-2013 Location Canada East Member Is Offline Mood: re-broken
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| posted on 1-2-2018 at 09:10 PM |
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Broiler, I can't deny that "WM is for the Casuals", but they rely awfully fucking heavily on the "hardcores" to fill the goddamn building.
Like, do you see "casuals" planning Wrestlemania trips EVERY YEAR LIKE CLOCKWORK?
It's just another case of shitting on the customers you have to chase the customers you'll never get. There was a time when the inverse
was the case (ie, keeping your existing customers loyal by catering to them), and I'm wondering if we might be nearing that tipping point again.
If so, "WM is for the Casuals" is going to backfire horribly. If the hardcores don't show up to fill the house, and the casuals are going to
leave halfway through the 92 hour show.. Is -that- what we want the Wrestlemania Moment to be? A two-thirds empty arena? Note, this isn't
going to happen anytime "soon" (unless there is some kind of radical change in the WWEUniverse), but it is a dangerous possibility to keep courting.
"It's a WWE tradition, to do something un-right." --Paddlefoot
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GodEatGod
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1626
Registered 1-14-2004 Location Monroe, LA Member Is Offline Mood: Weird
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| posted on 1-2-2018 at 09:18 PM |
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I mean, WM may be for the casuals, but fuck them, I don't care what they like.
"It is an impressively arrogant move to conclude that just because you don't like something, it is empirically not good. I don't like
Chinese food, but I don't write articles trying to prove it doesn't exist." - Tina Fey
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DKBroiler
SpeciASSl CUMedian
Posts 1928
Registered 1-25-2008 Location One Inch Right of Philly on a Map Member Is Offline Mood: Old
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| posted on 1-2-2018 at 09:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Count Zero
Broiler, I can't deny that "WM is for the Casuals", but they rely awfully fucking heavily on the "hardcores" to fill the goddamn building.
Like, do you see "casuals" planning Wrestlemania trips EVERY YEAR LIKE CLOCKWORK?
It's just another case of shitting on the customers you have to chase the customers you'll never get. There was a time when the inverse
was the case (ie, keeping your existing customers loyal by catering to them), and I'm wondering if we might be nearing that tipping point again.
If so, "WM is for the Casuals" is going to backfire horribly. If the hardcores don't show up to fill the house, and the casuals are going to
leave halfway through the 92 hour show.. Is -that- what we want the Wrestlemania Moment to be? A two-thirds empty arena? Note, this isn't
going to happen anytime "soon" (unless there is some kind of radical change in the WWEUniverse), but it is a dangerous possibility to keep courting.
Your argument is totally logical but easily countered. The hardcores will still show up and plan 4 day vacations. That�s what hardcore fans do.
That in and of itself has nothing to do with wrestling. Hardcore MMO players get angry at easy casual dungeons. Hardcore DFS players get angry at
rule changes implemented to help casual players. I�ve seen each of these happen first hand the last few years. If you�re truly hardcore you�ll keep
on coming and coming and coming if only to bitch about how you could do a better job.
I guarantee there hardcore football fans who hate buy their season tickets and we all know that there are hardcore political junkies who hate
everything but still watch the news daily. Pick a topic and you can find a group of people who are hardcore fans of it and someone in that group is
mocking the casuals.
But at the end of the day, if you can easily project that 95% of your core 10% will never go anywhere (especially with WWE when the other options are
like watching single A baseball from a production standpoint) why not program for the people who only might show up?
For example ... the best pure match that the WWE could put on would likely be AJ vs Finn with all of the handcuffs taken off. Let�s say it�s a 1 hour
Ironman Match, or whatever you feel is the bar for best workrate example. What is more likely to result in a bigger gate ... that or Batista v
Goldberg? It�s the later without question. You can sell Drax versus that guy from the 90s that you remember from high school much easier to a casual
than you can the workrate classic.
Sure, we�ll likely shit on it as a terrible demotion for the full time guys that worked all year, but we�ll still watch ... because that�s what
hardcore fans do.
And if they ever think that the hardcore base is truly in jeopardy they will throw us our every 5 year bone that we�ve been getting since HBK v Hart,
like the HBK - HHH - Voldemort match and YestleMania.
Drew Gulak guy.
Former and current Braun Strowman guy.
0 Time Award Winner
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DKBroiler
SpeciASSl CUMedian
Posts 1928
Registered 1-25-2008 Location One Inch Right of Philly on a Map Member Is Offline Mood: Old
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| posted on 1-2-2018 at 09:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
I mean, WM may be for the casuals, but fuck them, I don't care what they like.
Hahaha - I fucking love you guys. At least you�re honest!
Drew Gulak guy.
Former and current Braun Strowman guy.
0 Time Award Winner
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First 9
The Rowdy One
Posts 2913
Registered 1-22-2013 Member Is Offline Mood: Doing the Emma Dance
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| posted on 1-2-2018 at 09:54 PM |
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It's funny how Hogan gets shit on(both by fans and wrestlers) by timing his returns and off time around Football season so he'd
consistently look like a draw and yet it feels like a lot of these old ''superstars'' do the exact same shit.
Goldberg and Shane O Mac weren't top sellers who left a shallow hole in the roster after their departure. They were top acts but not mega
superstars and if either had to perform weekly and do ppv matches on a montly basis their intangible ''star power'' would burn
out by month three.
I'm not their biggest fans but I won't deny that Taker and Cena are heads and shoulders above the rest of the roster in terms of
connection with the audience and(if their health/schedule permitted it) they'd leave 99% of the roster eating dust in merch sales/live
attendance if they were a weekly presence. But along with Brock I feel they are the only ones at that level. All the other old farts rely on that once
a year factor to stay special.
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DKBroiler
SpeciASSl CUMedian
Posts 1928
Registered 1-25-2008 Location One Inch Right of Philly on a Map Member Is Offline Mood: Old
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| posted on 1-3-2018 at 12:30 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by First 9
It's funny how Hogan gets shit on(both by fans and wrestlers) by timing his returns and off time around Football season so he'd
consistently look like a draw and yet it feels like a lot of these old ''superstars'' do the exact same shit.
Goldberg and Shane O Mac weren't top sellers who left a shallow hole in the roster after their departure. They were top acts but not mega
superstars and if either had to perform weekly and do ppv matches on a montly basis their intangible ''star power'' would burn
out by month three.
I'm not their biggest fans but I won't deny that Taker and Cena are heads and shoulders above the rest of the roster in terms of
connection with the audience and(if their health/schedule permitted it) they'd leave 99% of the roster eating dust in merch sales/live
attendance if they were a weekly presence. But along with Brock I feel they are the only ones at that level. All the other old farts rely on that once
a year factor to stay special.
Nailed it. I think it�s pretty safe to assume that we�ll get a returning star every year around this time for the foreseeable future in a limited but
high profile role assuming there are enough healthy vets around. Sting and Goldberg combined for 6 matches total I think. Hardly over staying their
welcomes.
I think Shane has been in, what, 4 matches in 2 years? That�s fine. HHH gets 1 to 3 a year but aside from them the pickings are slim and expensive.
The Rock could sell out 100k stadium but has to be expensive as hell. Many of the 80s guys can�t walk so they are out, and the 90s guys are rapidly
dwindling. I�m racking my brain but I can�t think of any 90s guy who would be worthy of a special run not already having it. Of course HBK is the
exception.
Of the 2000s guys ... unfortunately many of them that are not still in WWE are hurt or, unfortunately, dead already.
If we are gonna have these anyway, do you guys have any old names you�d like to see make one final main event run? I mean it�s gonna happen, so may
as well throw some names out there.
Drew Gulak guy.
Former and current Braun Strowman guy.
0 Time Award Winner
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salmonjunkie
Best There Is Was or Ever Will Be
Posts 11980
Registered 6-25-2002 Location Sunny Seattle, WA Member Is Offline Mood: Authoritized
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| posted on 1-3-2018 at 12:56 AM |
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Hardcore wrestling fans, and even moreso - hardcore WWE fans all buy their WrestleMania tickets before the first match is even announced. They were
on sale Survivor Series weekend this year, and the travel packages - which include hotel accomodations, WrestleMania Axxess, the Hall of Fame
Induction Ceremony, NXT TakeOver, Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. were on sale in October. And that's not to add the local events by local indy
feds for the hardcorest of the hardcore wrestling fans.
That live event and the spectacle around it is already mostly sold out before the event happens. They've got all those eyeballs. Selling to
the casuals is important for those PPV and Network buys. But it's not just that. Because, again, it's not just hardcore wrestling fans.
It's hardcore WWE fans. WWE Axxess isn't just "spend 4 hours asking Finn Balor and Kevin Owens questions about their favorite matches in
Japan/ROH/PWG/Etc." It's getting signatures from Bayley and Zack Ryder.
The family of 4 who goes to all 6 or 7 of the WWE WrestleMania week events and spend the week hanging out in the city are going to love John Cena vs
the Undertaker. The hardcore fans who are at the event may shit on it online, but they're going to cheer the hair-tingling entrance of the
Undertaker and sing along with "John Cena Sucks!". They're going to chant "you deserve it" or "welcome back" or "holy shit" to someone,
and cum in their pants when AJ Styles retains his WWE Championship.
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Count Zero
The Rowdy One
Posts 2585
Registered 1-29-2013 Location Canada East Member Is Offline Mood: re-broken
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| posted on 1-3-2018 at 05:21 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
(lots of good words about the "hardcore" mentality)
Oh, I know that "we" keep coming back and bitching about how we could do it better,
etc etc etc. But, man, there's always a breaking point and a fall-off. Just cuz we ain't seen it -yet- doesn't mean it will never
happen. Again, I don't see it as being a "2018 is make or break" situation at the moment, but when does "a ratings slump" become
"we're losing our core audience in droves"? And how many times can you pull out HBK/John Cena/Undertaker/Whoever before we catch on to the
fact that they're just throwing bones to the hardcores?
And when you DO break those hardcore hearts, are they not the ones most likely to drive the casuals away from your product? "Oh man, no, don't
give your money to those guys, they give no fucks about their customers/fans." And since the person I asked is a "wrestling fan", I'll trust
them to steer my casual-ass towards something I might appreciate.
I find myself being one of the "hardcore" who is losing a lot of my core because it's hard to get engaged in WWE-These-Days. If the
WWEUniverse had more of Me, we'd be approaching my hypothetical tipping point. To use a bad analogy: I was in love with this girl named WWE,
but then she turned out to be a crazy psycho who fed off any & all attention from anybody. So, like, after a dozen heartbreaks, I kinda gave up on
trying to date her. It's nice when she smiles at me & tells me a funny story, but I don't think that her doing so is any commitment of
any kind to me-and-her-having-a-future.
TL;DR -- Human beings only take so much shit before they decide to do something else. If they take more than that set amount of shit, they're
masochists. Yes, I know masochists make up a large part of this fanbase, sooooo... Maybe y'alls right.  I'm just exploring the
options.
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DKBroiler
SpeciASSl CUMedian
Posts 1928
Registered 1-25-2008 Location One Inch Right of Philly on a Map Member Is Offline Mood: Old
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| posted on 1-3-2018 at 05:55 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Count Zero
quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
(lots of good words about the "hardcore" mentality)
Oh, I know that "we" keep coming back and bitching about how we could do it better,
etc etc etc. But, man, there's always a breaking point and a fall-off. Just cuz we ain't seen it -yet- doesn't mean it will never
happen. Again, I don't see it as being a "2018 is make or break" situation at the moment, but when does "a ratings slump" become
"we're losing our core audience in droves"? And how many times can you pull out HBK/John Cena/Undertaker/Whoever before we catch on to the
fact that they're just throwing bones to the hardcores?
And when you DO break those hardcore hearts, are they not the ones most likely to drive the casuals away from your product? "Oh man, no, don't
give your money to those guys, they give no fucks about their customers/fans." And since the person I asked is a "wrestling fan", I'll trust
them to steer my casual-ass towards something I might appreciate.
I find myself being one of the "hardcore" who is losing a lot of my core because it's hard to get engaged in WWE-These-Days. If the
WWEUniverse had more of Me, we'd be approaching my hypothetical tipping point. To use a bad analogy: I was in love with this girl named WWE,
but then she turned out to be a crazy psycho who fed off any & all attention from anybody. So, like, after a dozen heartbreaks, I kinda gave up on
trying to date her. It's nice when she smiles at me & tells me a funny story, but I don't think that her doing so is any commitment of
any kind to me-and-her-having-a-future.
TL;DR -- Human beings only take so much shit before they decide to do something else. If they take more than that set amount of shit, they're
masochists. Yes, I know masochists make up a large part of this fanbase, sooooo... Maybe y'alls right. I'm just exploring the
options.
WWEBDSM
Drew Gulak guy.
Former and current Braun Strowman guy.
0 Time Award Winner
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CCharger
The Great One
Posts 3848
Registered 7-21-2010 Member Is OnlineMood: Covfefe
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| posted on 1-3-2018 at 01:37 PM |
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As CM Punk has famously said, "It doesn't matter what the main event of Wrestlemania is. Wrestlemania is the draw itself, not the matches."
The main event could be Vince Russo vs. David Arquette for the re-established WCW title and they'd still sell 65,000 tickets.
"I almost hope he fucks off forever from OO now."
--Paddlefoot
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First 9
The Rowdy One
Posts 2913
Registered 1-22-2013 Member Is Offline Mood: Doing the Emma Dance
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| posted on 1-3-2018 at 05:08 PM |
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I think most of these part-timers special matches are old guys jerking each other off but what Punk said is factually incorrect. First Rock vs Cena
match smashed buyrate records.
But that's the Rock, a blockbuster movie star. All the others are only special because WWE props them up like that.
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Cherokee Jack
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1542
Registered 2-24-2009 Location New Orleans, LA Member Is OnlineMood:
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| posted on 1-3-2018 at 06:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by First 9
I think most of these part-timers special matches are old guys jerking each other off but what Punk said is factually incorrect. First Rock vs Cena
match smashed buyrate records.
But that's the Rock, a blockbuster movie star. All the others are only special because WWE props them up like that.
�Smashed� is a
stretch. It did do their highest number, but not by a wide margin. It improved on the previous year�s Mania (Cena vs Miz, with Rock as the host) by
about 100K buys. And it just barely beat out WM23 in 2007 (which featured the current president of these United States). But yeah, it�s a bit
different when you�re talking about having the biggest movie star in the world on your show.
As far as �the casuals,� yeah a lot of people who quit watching full time come back for Mania season and i get booking for them to some extent, but it
seems like it�d make sense to also try and book things that will get the casuals to want to come back more often. Like you can give them Cena vs
Undertaker somewhere on the card, and Lesnar and Angle and so forth can have their place as well, but then you let (for example) AJ and Nakamura go
tear the house down for 30 minutes in the main event, and maybe you get some of those fans who came back to see all their old favorites to go �holy
shit these guys are awesome, I�ll tune in Tuesday to see them again!�
The current guys need to be treated as just as (and truthfully, more) important than the old guys coming back. It�s the opposite of what they did last
year with Kevin Owens. Brock/Goldberg didn�t need the belt. I can�t believe that involving the title in that match sold one buy that the match
wouldn�t have sold anyway. You could�ve done Brock/Goldberg on the show while Owens and Jericho went to war in a title vs title match that would�ve
had way higher stakes and importance than it did by having Goldberg squash KO and turning their match into an opening contest for a midcard belt.
Book for the casuals, fine. But also book the current generation as being on that same level of importance and maybe some of the casuals stop being
just casuals.
I'm Cherokee Jack!
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First 9
The Rowdy One
Posts 2913
Registered 1-22-2013 Member Is Offline Mood: Doing the Emma Dance
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| posted on 1-3-2018 at 07:45 PM |
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Smashed was a strong word I admit, but just wanted to point out that real mega stars do make a difference. But Rock is in a class of his own. All of
these other legends sort of just blend together.
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CCharger
The Great One
Posts 3848
Registered 7-21-2010 Member Is OnlineMood: Covfefe
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| posted on 1-4-2018 at 03:03 PM |
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* Bobby Lashley, Ricochet, and Tess Blanchard are all expected to sign with WWE soon
* There is apparently a great deal of infighting regarding the booking for the Rumble and beyond. While Vince will have the final say on everything,
he has been noticeably absent from several important creative meetings recently. That lack of creative direction could begin to appear on WWE TV very
soon in the form of strange pushes for people, storylines developing and dying out of no where, and unusual character changes.
"I almost hope he fucks off forever from OO now."
--Paddlefoot
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