Hart Dynasty vs. DX a night after Survivor Series?

If this happened in 1997 it would have been the hottest thing on tv.

I know no comment about Survivor Series. That says it all doesn't it? LOL

quote:

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Originally posted by S Kid J E T S 48
added with a strong promo afterwards putting himself over even further. It was about 30x more effective to me this month than last.

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On Miz/Morrison's recent past: you are not the first folks to catch that. I had almost two dozen emails about that after I published it on Friday morning. Whoops. I don't know what's scarier: the fact that there are at least two dozen people out there who get jollies off of catching The Rick with his pants down, or the fact that I didn't even bother to think to fix/edit it when I reposted it here on Sunday.

On McCool: I always just assumed she's trying to adopt some of her boyfriend's imagery, on the off-chance that the two are ever put together in an on-screen capacity. Turn her shitty bleach-job and turn it into a shitty Elvira-job, and it'd work just fine as a throw-away gimmick as Taker works his way out of the company... until that time, it's just there; it's not overpowering or distracting or anything.

Match o' the Night: Cena/HHH/HBK. And it wasn't even close.
Wrestler o' the Night: Kofi (his extended sequence with Punk while Orton was pussying it up around ringside really was great, even before he hit the big finale).
Angle o' the Night: Christian backstage with the brothas.
Recap o' the Night: whatever Keller wrote. He's soooooo dreamy. Or not.


Rick

What the hell is going on with all those crucifixs in Michelle McCool's outfit? Is her gimmick spreading christianity?

Didn't forget. Probably should have qualified that a bit better.

While they had a singles match that Miz won...

a) It wasn't like he won a belt in that match
b) It didn't feel like we were getting THE MATCH out of Miz/Morrison. Just another weekly show main event type match. It wasn't nearly long enough, and had a weird, non-definitive ending.
c) It had no meaning because all they were fighting for was "Bragging Rights"...and who the fuck cares about this imaginary thing called "Bragging Rights".


I say this is a major win, because he came out looking like a major character, at the head of a major youth movement (if I were an optimistic fella) on Raw, and a leader in a much more important gimmicked match...added with a strong promo afterwards putting himself over even further. It was about 30x more effective to me this month than last.

[Edit] Heel Youth Movement Team>Fictional rivalry between TV shows team.

[Edited on 11-23-2009 by S Kid J E T S 48]

quote:

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Originally posted by S Kid J E T S 48
(outside of Finlay - "Look the 10 Superstars of the Future in that ring!"...something like that -- Jerry Lawler), and the individual matches were about the main event stars.

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Goin to Raw Monday got me pumped up a bit...so it was nice that it was a big 4 ppv that I usually buy coming up yesterday, since I probably would have had to make it 5 per year that I get.

There might have been a lot of obvious last night, but at least it was the correct-type of obvious.

It really was a tale of two sides last night. The SS matches were all about the future (outside of Finlay - "Look the 10 Superstars of the Future in that ring!"...something like that -- Jerry Lawler), and the individual matches were about the main event stars.

In the first match, they gave Shameus and McIntyre their first real PPV highlights as both looked good...as well as giving Miz his truely first major win. I found it a bit questionable to eliminate Ziggler if they were going to do it this way, but I'm guessing after the 30th loss to Morrison on Friday, he's moving back on down the ladder. All together it was a nice opener that got more time than I would have thought.

Bats/Rey was more of a continuation of an angle than a match, as we've seen them have better matches on a Smackdown than here. I know he got stretchered, but I'm not convinced this is the way they are putting out Rey for his surgery. I feel like there is still another part to this, and maybe we're reading into the TLC a little too much as a main event match and not a theme. What if they use each part as a gimmick in certain matches? Bats use of a chair last night can set the table for a chairs match against Rey next month that could be fun, until he really fucks up Rey in a more convincing way, and also allows him to get a bigger win over Taker at Rumble. I'll be shocked if they are going Taker/Bats in a straight ahead TLC match next month already.

The Kofi/Orton SS match was booked quite well. Leaving it as Christian/Kofi v. Punk/Orton was fun for while it lasted, and letting Kofi get the quick and shocking win over Punk and Orton like he did didn't hurt either one in the least, allowed Orton not to have an entire month of Kofi dominating him, and really really really set up Kofi for a huge match with Orton next month.

Smackdown TT was nice. These matches usually allow Show to shine a little more than usual because he doesn't have to be included in every part of the match. Jericho and Taker definitely have a good chemistry going. I was fine with Taker going over here because it allows Jericho to whine that he wasn't the one to take the loss and opens some possibilities...more on that later though.

Divas SS match...people should take my opinion on women's matches as strongly as I take TNA fan's criticism of WWE workrate...I don't think I'm ever going to enjoy a women's match truely again. But while I'm commenting, I might as well add that I'm more offended with the finish of the match more than the stupid ass skit with Mickie and McCool on Smackdown. Mickie had to get the revenge pin there. Melina made no sense.

Cena v. DX...the pop of the crowd and Cena's reaction after HBK superkicked HHH were amazing. [Side note: even after these years, isn't the Superkick still one of those moves that no matter how many times you've seen it, still gets you excited each and every time?] The spots were nice, but nothing special. I'm fine with the ending, although they didn't exactly foreshadow anything. HHH has to at least react in some way tonight otherwise I'm going to think he's been neutered. Any version of HHH would have fucked up HBK for screwing him out of the title as he did last night.

And a neutered HHH isn't much of a HHH anyone will want to watch anymore.




Now coming off the PPV, there's a few directions they can go with the main event scene. I'd almost be just as interested in seeing some sort of return matches next month even if people are craving main event movement.

They have to first decide what they are doing with Jericho at Wrestlemania. They have two big feuds they can do between now and then and I figure one's going to start now and one then. They can either do the big DX v. Jerishow feud, or they can set up Jericho v. Taker (at this point, I'm under the assumption Edge will not be ready by April).

DX v. Jerishow for the titles in a TLC is almost strange enough for me to want to see. Of course, this means that we get Batista/Taker TLC if the rules are what they are (unless Punk is pushed up again). I think the move is Jericho/Taker since Edge/Taker worked out very well.

That leaves something like this that I'd be fine with:

Taker/Jericho
HHH/HBK/Cena
Bats/Rey Grudge match
Kofi/Orton (maybe even a #1 contenders contact TLC match...and let Kofi get the Jeff Hardy treatment and give him the usual forgotten Rumble title match just to dip his feet in the waters)
Punk/R-Truth(or if they are somewhat creative...Punk/Christian)
Miz v. Swagger (v. Bourne?) for the U.S. Title.
Morrison v. McIntyre for the I.C.
Random Divas match.

8 matches...gimmick matches at least having some reason for existing (unlike Punk/Taker HitC), and an undercard with actual back story. Yeah, we see a lot of the same matches, but its different enough and fresh enough that I think this would be a really good card.

If Undertaker really is on a downward spiral towards retirement, like we all believe, I think he needs to start bringing out some old Taker classic matches: Casket, Urn, and Buried Alive. We know he's got at least one more Hell in a Cell in him.

That's four PPV's right there at least. What's the point of having a signature match if you don't use it?

I know I'd rather see taker in a casket match than a TLC match. That's just not a great match for Taker or as it looks to be, Batista.

I had expected Jericho and Mysterio to win. Mysterio to win in a 'fluke' fashion to set-up Batista really destroying him at TLC and so that Jericho would be the champ for TLC.

Now instead it seems they've set up UT vs. Batista... in presumably a TLC match? Really?

Michaels superkicking HHH to start the match really popped the crowd and got the 'anything can happen' vibe going for that match. An element missing for most of the Survivor Series. I was really disappointed in the Team Miz/Team Morrison match. It was really rushed, although Shameus kicking Finlay as Finlay turned his head was a nice move.

Didnt see the PPV but from what I read on recaps it seemed like just another PPV, even worse nothing fucking changed. After the monotny that WWE has been since SS some changed would've been great, but its still the same.

Watched at the local Buffalo Wild Wings, where usually the people watching are not the typical "It's still real to me" people. But I'll be damned if the whole place did not erupt into a loud and almost universal "Cena sucks" chant. As far as the actual show went, Kofi over Orton was great, though it just forsehadows eventually that the Baby Oil Bandit will steal the final win of the feud, what with Kofi emasculating him even more than his choice of stable members. Miz, Sheamus, and McIntyre winning was almost a forgone conclusion but nicely handled. Batista handed out one of the lamest put a guy on the shelf beatdowns, and the Diva's match blew worse than Orton after one too many appletini's. Taker win = yawn and there you have it. If they were smart they would have tried to lift stuff from last weeks TNA 3 way.

quote:

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Originally posted by the goon
Bunch of predictions

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I don't care what else happens tonight, the moment of the night was:

Some Fan: Go Back To Toronto!
Jericho (mid-move): I'm from Winnipeg, You Idiot!

I think Morrison winds up being stuck in a 5-on-1 situation, manages to somehow eliminate Miz, Ziggler, but then gets brutalized by Sheamus and Swagger and Mcintyre sneaks in for the pin. This sets up Swagger v Sheamus v Miz and Mcintyre v Morrison.

If they're going to pull a heel turn with either, I'd rather see it be Michaels. Minus his one month feud with Hogan, it's hard to believe Shawn has been a face for the last seven years.

I just hope either HBK or HHH turn heel, Raw is in serious need of a top heel to feud with Cena (after he wins tonight) because Orton will be busy with Kofi.

I'll throw my predictions out there for the hell of it:

John Cena vs. Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels: I'm assuming Cena retains here. While either Triple H or Shawn holding the title could create an interesting dynamic within DX, I just think that Cena has had too many quick, insignificant reigns in the last year or so (wow, there's a statement I never thought I'd write).

The Undertaker vs. Chris Jericho vs. The Big Show: Man, I would LOVE to see Jericho with the world title along with the two unified tag titles (just the visual alone would be awesome). But I predict Taker retains here, as a feud with Batista (maybe at the Rumble) seems like it has to happen before he drops the belt.

Batista vs. Rey Mysterio: There can be only two outcomes of this match: Batista winning or Batista getting disqualified for brutalizing Rey.

Team Orton vs. Team Kofi: Part of the Eternal Push of Randy Orton is that he's always the sole survivor for his team, so I predict just that. Orton and Kofi are the last two guys, Orton gets the pinfall and win for his team.

Team Morrison vs. Team Miz: I'd like to predict the faces go over here, but it seems like Sheamus and Drew McIntyre are amidst big pushes right now, so I'll go with the heels.

Team Mickie vs. Team McCool: Who really cares, but I'll say the faces go over and Mickie gets her revenge on Michelle McCool.

I forgot Survivor Series was tonight even after reading Rick's preview just a day or two ago. I haven't hulued much Smackdown since CM Punk lost the title. I've never been a huge Undertaker fan as he is very inconsistent with match quality. Haven't seen Raw in 3 months and ECW doesn't factor into pay per views despite that being the show I watch the most. You're the best WWE.

I gotta get skeddaddling to go watch the Dayton Flyers vie for the HIGHLY DESIRABLE Bronze Medal in the Puerto Rico Shoot-Out, but I'm also genuinely looking forward to wasting some time after the game on rasslin'.

I'm surprised there hasn't been a thread for this yet, as if *I* have interest in a show, it stands to reason others have even more. But guess not. To jump start your dicussion tonight, here's the line-up/analysis I posted in Friday morning's OO column:

It honestly feels like
we've done nothing but tread water since SummerSlam, and the last time
I genuinely felt like a PPV line-up was enticing and fresh goes back
even farther than that. To somewhere in that strong post-Mania run of
Backlash/Extreme Rules/Night of Champions.
 
At least that
finally changes on Sunday with Survivor Series. The two top titles are
not necessarily on "fresh" champions (both Cena and Undertaker had
already held their respective titles this year, prior to their current
reigns), but they are finally being paired up with compelling new
challengers, and in intrigue-laden 3-way storylines that mirror each
other.
 
That's good.
 
And even though the
"theme PPV" concept means WWE idiotically shot its "RAW vs. SmackDown
Team Matches" wad at Bragging Rights (when Survivor Series was just ONE
MONTH LATER), we're replacing the obvious and sensible brand-delineated
elimination matches with a trio of crossbrand mash-ups featuring stars
of all brands interacting with each other in unique ways.
 
That's
good, too. I mean, granted I would have prefered Bragging Rights never
happen (or at least: that it happen during another part of the year
far, far away from Survivor Series so you don't run into this problem),
but as far as random 5-on-5 pairings go, WWE's done a pretty decent job
setting us up for promising contests on Sunday.
 
Coming
from me: hey, I happen to think that's saying a lot. I'm a giant
poopy-pantsed pessimist, and even I think Survivor Series' card has
more going for it than any WWE PPV line-up in a long while. For your
edification, here's a quick run-down of what to expect:
 
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H (WWE Title).
OK, so Randy Orton is shut out of any title rematches (per a
stipulation at Bragging Rights), and Cena needs a new challenger. That
part is awesome. So then, when two dipshit NASCAR nonlebrities are in
charge of RAW, and are without a clue as to what to do, they take the
advice of a magical leprechaun and decide to book HBK and HHH as
CO-CHALLENGERS to Cena at Survivor Series. And yeah: that part is
retarded beyond all belief, but it really is how it happened. Two
NASCAR guys let a midget book a PPV main event. That said: it's a
damned fine main event once you get past the awful and ham-handed deus
ex machina... Cena/Michaels have been awesome together before;
HHH/Michaels have been awesome before; Cena/HHH have... well, we can at
least say they've been together before. The three together should be
pretty damned good. The subtext here is that Cena's vascilating between
thinking he's the victim of a 2-on-1 handicap match and thinking he can
stir up trouble between HBK and HHH to create a pure three-way where he
can win. But for their part, Michaels and Hunter made it clear that --
at least for one night -- DX is on vacation, and each of them wants to
hold the gold. They've kept all this very low-key and
non-confrontational, to the point where it was almost a boring lead-up
to the PPV... all the more reason (for me) to think a well-masked heel
turn is in the offing on Sunday, which would only add to the drama and
excitement, as well as shake-up the title picture that's been
Cena/Orton-centric for WAAAAYYYY too long. And HHH *did* just Pedigree
a midget. Sayin' is all...
 
Undertaker vs. Chris Jericho vs. Big Show (World Title).

Taker smited CM Punk to solidify his hold on the strap, and Big Show
was initially named as the #1 Contender... but then after NASCAR guys
and midgets colluded to create a 3-way RAW Title Match at the PPV,
Teddy Long decided to imitate them. Chris Jericho won a big match on
SmackDown to earn that third spot, which mirrors DX's spot in a match
against a dominant champ. Despite having Brand Hopping Rights, Show
hasn't been seen much on SD (he's been off filming a movie, and only
getting Mondays off to do TV; that'll end effective in December), leaving us with little to say about his
motives here, other than the fact that he and Jericho have no lack of
Prickly Heat between them, but that (as we saw at Bragging Rights and at times on RAW) they
are able to easily set that aside in order to do good business. But
here, with the Unified Tag Titles not on the line, "good business" no
longer includes staying on the same page long enough to retain those
belts and retain the valuable Brand Hopping Status. JeriShow can
regroup to retain those titles at a later time (and much to the chagrin
of fans just DYING for the break-up, I hope they do successfully
retain, over and over again, till at least WrestleMania), but on
Sunday, their "every man for himself" philosophy will be even more
clear-cut than DX's. My guess: Jericho won't like it that way, however.
Jericho/Taker has been more of a one-on-one feud on Friday nights, the
start of a potentially very promising long-term feud between two men
who'd never actually had a match against each other until just last
week.... so when Jericho tries to man up against Taker again on Sunday,
he'll look to Show to have his back, and it won't work out that way.
Jericho falls into place as a pure heel, Taker as the pure face, and
Show a match-long tweener. Just as with the RAW title match, there's
the talent here to have a great contest, but even more potential for
storytelling and drama given the personalities and credibility of all
involved. I'm looking forward to this one.
 
Team
Orton (Randy Orton, Ted DiBiase, Cody Rhodes, CM Punk, William Regal)
vs. Team Kingston (Kofi Kingston, MVP, Mark Henry, Christian, R-Truth).
Easily the lesser of the cross-brand elimination matches in
terms of overall talent/depth, this still rates as compelling because
of the incredible breakout month Kofi has had feuding against the
pleasantly-demoted Midcard Randy Orton. Kofi dropped the phoney accent
and displayed a newfound charisma in a breakout promo 3 weeks ago, and
then on Monday, showed the kind of intensity and
connection-with-the-audience that you simply don't see every day in a breakout moment at MSG.
Of the "add-ons" in this 5-on-5, Christian and Regal's ECW feud has
been -- by far -- the most satisfying to watch over the past several
months; the Punk/R-Truth "feud" is just weak-ass fodder that's allowing
Punk to refocus after being trounced by Taker, and DiBiase/Rhodes vs.
MVP/Henry is the very definition of channel-flip-inducing. But Orton/Kofi is so
strong right now that that'll carry this match through the early stages
where MVP/Henry/Truth need to be oustered quickly. [Damn me,
always hatin' on the brothas.] Regal should probably not be long for
this match, either. Then I see a couple options to best tell the
Orton/Kofi story. With the caveat that Orton HAS to win here (he's been
decimated by Kofi the past month), and in a way that sets up a
one-on-one versus Kofi at the NEXT PPV (where they should seriously
consider putting Kofi over), I'd vote for it coming down to Legacy vs.
Kofi, 3-on-1. Then, Kofi still manages to rally to eliminate
Rhodes/DiBiase (which will frustrate Orton, who stands by like a pussy,
expecting others to do his dirty work; could jumpstart the rumored face
turn(s) for DiBiase/Rhodes)... but after a long and grueling uphill
battle, Kofi's got nothing left in the tank versus Orton in the 1-on-1,
and Orton is the Sole Survivor. I'd dig that. Yes, people, I just
outlined a way for Randall Orton to win a match and I'd LIKE it. See,
I'm not so unreasonable.
 
Team
Morrison (John Morrison, Evan Bourne, Matt Hardy, Shelton Benjamin,
Finlay) vs. Team Miz (Miz, Jack Swagger, Sheamus, Drew McIntyre, Dolph
Ziggler).
This lacks the sizzle of the other 5-on-5, but does
feature a crapload of more flat-out in-ring talent. Could make for a
perfect opener with tons of action and fast pace, which would warm up
the fans before they have a chance to get annoyed that they're once
again being subjected to Ziggler on a PPV. [Or, alternately: a bunch
may have no idea who Drew McIntyre is, given SD's weekly ratings.]
What's pretty nice here is that you have basically three separate
issues holding these 10 together. One is that Miz and Morrison are the
US and IC Champs, respectively, just 6 months removed from their run as
perhaps the best tag team of the past 3 years; their little rivalry --
if done right -- is the sort of thing that'll have legs as its
(SLOOOOWWWWWWLLY) portioned out over time in these cross-brand
settings. Then: you have the standalone US Title picture, which
includes Miz butting heads with Swagger (his teammate here) and
sometimes with Evan Bourne involved. Interesting. And third, you have
the IC Title picture, where Morrison's spent the better part of the
past 2 months dealing with Ziggler. Some more interweaving to give us
depth and layers beyond just Miz vs. Morrison. I like that; in the
right hands, it's a license to print drama, what with all these warring
agendas.  Then on top of all that, you add in Shelton (because he
rules, and if you want a spotfest, you do NOT exclude Mr. Benjamin),
Sheamus and McIntyre (because both are very promising newcomers, each
being given the super-badass intro treament on RAW and SD,
respectively), and Matt and Finlay (uhhhh, just because their veterans
who deserve the PPV payday? actually, both are quite solid and will fit
in well, here). After Morrison bested Miz last month, I think
(especially with both Sheamus and McIntyre backing him) Miz is due the
Team Win here... you could even do a thing where Miz himself doesn't
Survive (I'd make it part of a thing where Swagger mutinies, causes Miz
to get eliminated, and then wins the match for himself), but later
CLAIMS victory, because it WAS called "Team MIZ." Maybe even a
semi-Owen-Hart-Homage to Survivor Series '93, where Miz is the ONLY guy
on his team to get eliminated, but since it was "his" team, he still
claims victory and gets mega-pissy at his partners (in this case:
Swagger) for claiming a victory that's really his....
 
Rey Mysterio vs. Batista.
Finally. The Batista heel turn we've been begging for for almost 4
years. They didn't do it when it'd have made sense, either because
Batista couldn't stay healthy long enough to set it up or because they
honestly thought everything was fine with Batista's character, but it's
finally here. The premise is that Rey and Batista were both in a 4-way
World Title match last month, and Batista thinks Rey got in the way of
Batista winning... and Batista's had just about enough of that happy
crappy. Since the initial turn, I've been finding Batista to actually
be the more compelling character, as Rey is all "What happened to you,
bro?" and whiny and stuff. They've overplayed it a bit, too, with
dramatic sit-down interviews and stuff (and a few overtones of Eddie
Guerrero); oddly, that's a slice of "real" (Rey and Batista were both
great friends with Eddie who became great friends with each other as a
result) that somehow comes off as stilted and melodramatic now that we
see it playing out in these segments. Through all that, though, the
"new" Batista is still pretty fun. Because he's the OLD Batista, in a
way. The Evolution Batista who effortlessly out-shone Randy Orton and
forced WWE to change the WM21 main event as a result. The Batista I
dubbed "The Logical Monster." He observes. He decides. He tells you
exactly what's gonna happen. Then it happens. Nothing loud and shouty.
Just well-executed ultraviolence after careful consideration. I fully
expect a Batista win here, which sets him up to go after Taker; that
way, Taker can be relieved of the World Title by somebody WWE "trusts"
(unlike Punk, apparently), and move onto his next big thing to set up
WrestleMania and The Streak (most believe it'll either be versus Cena
or versus Jericho).
 
Team
McCool (Michelle McCool, Beth Phoenix, Jillian Hall, Layla, Alicia Fox)
vs. Team Mickie (Mickie James, Melina, Gail Kim, Kelly Kelly, Eve
Torres). Unlike the guy's matches, there isn't so much in the
way of interwoven feuding going on here. The basic story is that
Michelle is the Women's Champ on SD, but newly-assigned-to-SD Mickie James
believes that'll be temporary until SHE gets a shot. So their two teams
here are basically an outgrowth of their power struggle, and were
assembled according to strict face/heel lines without much other
consideration. The interesting thing here: McCool is the Womens Champ on SD
and kvetching with Mickie, but it's BETH who is currently the most
dominant woman on that brand. Meantime, Mickie is the team captain, but
the Diva Champ (from RAW) is Melina. Melina and Beth as over-looked
"lackeys" could be an interesting subtext here. As if WWE would ever
care about even NORMAL text in a women's match, much less subtext....
but I'm trying to put a happy face on this one, people.

Apologies for the wonky formatting. I guess that's what happens when you mix HTML with BB Code. Anyway, feel free to pile on with your own predictions now that you've seen my thoughts, and of course, real-time and post-show thoughts are not just welcome; they are encouraged.


Rick