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Subject: 2.24.11 HUGE Announcement Showdown: Jericho vs. Mistico
Chris Is Good517
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posted on 2-25-2011 at 08:14 PM
I think saying he's going to get the Ultimo Dragon treatment is incredibly premature for a guy who hasn't debuted yet. I realize WWE
didn't really use Ultimo like they could/should have, but wasn't the story that he was generally uncooperative anyway? And then when he
fell and busted his face during his entrance at WM20 it was just sort of a mutual decision to part ways?
Gee, I wish I was still alive- LuckyLopez R.I.P.
Bachmann: "I haven't had a gaffe... when it comes to the best Republican who take
on Barack Obama and not have any clunker in my record to be able to take him on, it's me."
Dead Ben
rOOkie
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posted on 2-25-2011 at 09:05 PM
I'm actually assuming that they will use him "Ultimo Dragon" style, and be presently surprised if they don't. I think it goes without
saying that WWE's track record of using crusierweights is not exactly stellar. I mean sure, you can say Mysterio, but they use him as a
heavyweight anyway.
Also, according to Rajah.com, Sin Cara means "faceless"
http://rajah.com/base/node/21962
[Edited on 2-25-2011 by Dead Ben]
"Don't confuse me with the facts" - Bill McNeal
C.MontgomeryPunk
Man of a Thousand Holds
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posted on 2-25-2011 at 09:13 PM
Any chance the wwe rips off his CMLL entrance music, or at least mimics it rather than giving him the usual wwe entrance music treatment?
This shit would be epic -
I remember Eddie Guerrero.
gambit3
Creepy Little Bastard
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posted on 2-25-2011 at 09:59 PM
Going back to the confusion/reporting-of-both-names, is anybody here fully immersed/fluent in Mexican Spanish? Even if they two words mean basically
the same thing, there's GOT to be some kind of subtle (or even colloquial) difference between the two. Sort of like how I choose my words
carefully, and thus Randy Orton is "retarded" while Glenn Beck is a "dipshit" (and there is a very important distinction, even if both boil down
to variants on "stupid"), I assume there's a reason for having the two words, and they aren't entirely equivalent to a Mexican
audience.
Any help out there, OO Nation?
So here I go....
"cara" is a more generic term, meaning closer to "face" as in, the outer surface of something.
"rostro" refers more specifically to a human face. It's kind of like the difference between "house" and "home". The former can be used
in a generic sense to describe anything that surrounds something else (i.e., the plastic cover surrounding your router), whereas the latter refers to
something far more personal.
Also, you are right in the sense that Sin Rostro is better phonetically than Sin Cara. In Spanish, there are many words that begin with "sin-", and
not necessarily as a prefix:
sinfonia
sintonia
siniestra
sinonimo
The hard "R" of "Rostro" breaks that flow, marking them as two separate words.
Oh Gen-Y, where to begin. You are all beautiful, special little snowflakes, and no one can tell you differently. You are spoiled little brats. Things
have been so good for you for so long, you are not going to have any idea how to deal when things turn to shit, and mommy and daddy can't bail
you out. And it's coming. I know, I know, I am a mean person, a "hater", for not presenting life as anything but rosy. Don't worry, you
are all special, beautiful little snowflakes, and I want to kiss you all on your precious little heads. All I ask is that you don't cry to me
when your H3 is repo'd when things go to hell.
OORick
You and what army?
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posted on 2-25-2011 at 11:11 PM
Muchos grassyass for the distinction. Next time WWE hires a hot up-and-coming Eurotrash sensation and gives him a German name, I'll delve into
my 4 years of high school deutsche to pay back the favor.
And from the looks of things, it seems "rostro" would also have been the more apt choice from a language/meaning perspective, as well as from the
phoenetic/how-it-sounds perspective. Unless this can somehow be taken to refer to the "face" on his mask, rather than his real face under the
mask... would that make sense? The importance of the masks in Mexico means that while Mistico's real, human features remain, the highly
significant design of his outer face-housing was wiped clean, and he's beginning with a blank slate in WWE?
Have I just nailed it, or am I just over-thinking the whole thing?
Rick
"He's from Mars, Officer; whiskey does not affect alien beings." -- Venus Flytrap speaking on The Rick
denverpunk
Showstopper
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posted on 2-25-2011 at 11:39 PM
Monty, thanks for the youtube video -- that entrance music owns. I could see a huge theatrical show going along with it. My only issue with it also
deals with the discussion on how they plan to use Mistico. That entrance screams 'main event', and WWE may not plan to use him that way.
If they keep that, then it'll show the company's future plans for him. If they give him the jobber metal entrance instead, then likewise.
C.MontgomeryPunk
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1686
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Mood: ButtViper-y
posted on 2-26-2011 at 12:42 AM
quote:- Jim Ross noted on Twitter this morning that Sin Cara is already in Los Angeles working on his WWE debut. Ross said that WWE has high hopes
for the former Mistico including a major "rollout" on TV.
Ross wrote:
"WWE has high hopes 4 Sin Cara. He has many new masks. Major TV 'rollout.' He's 27 & has op 2 b a main eventer. A flyer, offensive
innovator. Ppl need to see how Sin Cara performs b4 condeming wwe 4 "pulling him down." That's just dumb. See how things playout then offer
opinion."
JR speculates that Cara will be debuting on the RAW brand.
I think the wwe has really high hopes for this kid. Now he could be a headcase I don't know, I read where he expects to be booked better than
Del Rio since Mistico was a superstar where as Dos Caras was a mid-carder. Alberto Del Rio has a few things going for him that makes him the better
bet in the wwe - he can speak english and is a big guy - 6'5ish 250. As far as I know, Mistico can't speak english - however that is not
necessarily a bad thing early on as it would add to the intregue around him if he was silent. And he could learn english in the interim.
I do think the comparison Dalem made was very apt - Sin Cara is Mysterio whereas Del Rio is Eddie Guerrero.
I think the best booking would be to keep Mysterio and Cara away from each other (see that's why Cara doesn't work, it's a chicks
name) for a full year to have their first match-up be in Miami at next years Wrestlemania. If Cara does end up on Raw, who would he debut against? Who
would he first feud with? Looking at the Raw roster and who could keep up with him - Dan Bryan and John Morrison both would fit. However Bryan is the
US champion with a sub finisher, and Morrison is in the midst of a push up the card. I think the best fit might be Tyson Kidd - Kidd is a heel who
could keep up and help Sin Cara learn the wwe style, while jobbing across the country on house shows. I think Mistico and Kidd could tear the house
down if given the time and could really help Kidd actually in get bookers to notice him.
Here is his finisher "La Mistica" - which wiki describes as Tilt�a�whirl headscissors takedown transitioned into a single arm DDT floated over into
a Fujiwara armbar - that I could see him using in the wwe. His use of his El P�ndulo on the other hand will likely be restricted, the El
P�ndulo is better known as the 6-1-9 in the wwe.
[Edited on 2-26-2011 by C.MontgomeryPunk]
I remember Eddie Guerrero.
Yayozama
Turd Generation Superstar
Posts 14
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Mood: Faceless
posted on 2-26-2011 at 03:16 AM
quote:Originally posted by gambit3
So here I go....
"cara" is a more generic term, meaning closer to "face" as in, the outer surface of something.
"rostro" refers more specifically to a human face. It's kind of like the difference between "house" and "home". The former can be used
in a generic sense to describe anything that surrounds something else (i.e., the plastic cover surrounding your router), whereas the latter refers to
something far more personal.
Also, you are right in the sense that Sin Rostro is better phonetically than Sin Cara. In Spanish, there are many words that begin with "sin-", and
not necessarily as a prefix:
sinfonia
sintonia
siniestra
sinonimo
The hard "R" of "Rostro" breaks that flow, marking them as two separate words.
Being a long time lurker of OO, I finally decided to log in and help a little in the topic (sorry if I make a mistake, my english is not perfect and
sometimes I can't find the words to express my toughts)
Basically "Sin Cara" and "Sin Rostro" are the same, and Mistico said that he choosed the name to represent the tradition of the masked luchador in
Mexico.
Here in Mexico, all the people are making fun of the new name of Mistico, but I think that the name may have more meaning that look at simple view.
"Sin Cara" means also "Descarado" in spanish.
"Descarado" is "Impudent" in english. Now, I don't know if that's on porpouse or I'm overthinking the subject. But I'm
finding funny that in WWE now there's a "2 face" and a "No Face" (And 2 face is the "pure Mexican" and the face is a "Impudent").
I may only add that I love this boards, so... there you go, when you have a doubt about Mexican Wrestling feel free to ask.
[Edited on 2-26-2011 by Yayozama]
C.MontgomeryPunk
Man of a Thousand Holds
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posted on 2-26-2011 at 03:44 AM
Albert of the River isn't a much better translated name either when you think about it. Either is Eddie Warrior, Chavo Warrior and Vickie
Warrior.
King of Mysteries is pretty good though.
I still hope Mistico changes the "Sin Cara" name, but it's probably too late. I mean if this is the best he could come up with, when he had
years to do it, as the kids say these days "epic fail". Somebody needs to tell him that Cara is a girls name in America.
I remember Eddie Guerrero.
Chris Is Good517
Posts 10686
Registered 1-10-2002 Location Little Rock, AR Member Is Online
Mood: punchy
posted on 2-26-2011 at 05:20 AM
That finisher looks really cool. I'm actually fairly excited to see this kid- surprised that Ross thinks he's coming to Raw, though.
Wouldn't Smackdown be the better fit?
Gee, I wish I was still alive- LuckyLopez R.I.P.
Bachmann: "I haven't had a gaffe... when it comes to the best Republican who take
on Barack Obama and not have any clunker in my record to be able to take him on, it's me."
mark markham
M4M - Looking 2 Meet Texan 5
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posted on 2-26-2011 at 06:47 AM
Gotta love that intro music. WWE should definitely try to rip it off and not give him generic rock or generic mexican guy music. I am also highly in
favor of getting more and more wrestlers with masks back on the tv. Flashy characters, not cartoon characters (another pair of words with subtle but
important differences) are one of the things that always made wrestling fun to me.
punkerhardcore
The Man
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posted on 2-26-2011 at 07:04 AM
quote:Originally posted by C.MontgomeryPunk
I still hope Mistico changes the "Sin Cara" name, but it's probably too late. I mean if this is the best he could come up with, when he had
years to do it, as the kids say these days "epic fail". Somebody needs to tell him that Cara is a girls name in America.
Rostro is better, but there's like, three people on the roster who could pronounce it correctly. Cara is probably the better choice, as it
won't be as butchered when said in an American accent.
Is everyone mad here?
Of course they are, and you are too... otherwise, you wouldn't have come here.
Posts 290
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posted on 2-26-2011 at 03:53 PM
So ... let's recap:
ADR = Two faces
Mistico = No Face
Cody Rhodes = Broken Face
Rey = Face breaker (Cody and UT)
You make a tag match out of that, and the heels actually have "two faces" on the team.
Chris Is Good517
Posts 10686
Registered 1-10-2002 Location Little Rock, AR Member Is Online
Mood: punchy
posted on 2-26-2011 at 05:37 PM
quote:Originally posted by wings76fan
So ... let's recap:
ADR = Two faces
Mistico = No Face
Cody Rhodes = Broken Face
Rey = Face breaker (Cody and UT)
You make a tag match out of that, and the heels actually have "two faces" on the team.
You forgot an old one:
Rikishi = Stink Face
Gee, I wish I was still alive- LuckyLopez R.I.P.
Bachmann: "I haven't had a gaffe... when it comes to the best Republican who take
on Barack Obama and not have any clunker in my record to be able to take him on, it's me."
diablo_dor
Fella
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posted on 2-26-2011 at 06:48 PM
quote:Originally posted by C.MontgomeryPunk
Somebody needs to tell him that Cara is a girls name in America.
Maybe one of the plans is to have a "ladies tag team" with that other Goddess they have on the roster
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali
I weirdly hope they don't go overboard with the masked wrestlers, I hope they allow these two to standout as the only masked guys & too many
would dilute the specialness.
Let's not forget that Reys first matches in the WWE were with his good friend Chavo & then a willing Kurt, I think he may need someone like
Bryan to give him a showstealing debut, hell have them compete for the US title at Wrestlemania then furthering the "nerd" shite have Daniel be the
only one who knows what Cara is saying since he's travelled extensively...
OORick
You and what army?
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posted on 2-26-2011 at 07:11 PM
quote:Originally posted by Chris Is Good517
That finisher looks really cool. I'm actually fairly excited to see this kid- surprised that Ross thinks he's coming to Raw, though.
Wouldn't Smackdown be the better fit?
Depends what you mean by "fit," I think.
Yes, he'd fit in on the more "wrestling-y"/less "entertainment-y" show on the grounds that he's only just last month started working
on his English skills.
But on the other hand, he fits on RAW, because you probably want to keep him and Rey away from each other so fans don't get burnt out on having
two guys doing the same gimmick on the same show. And if they DID "do the same gimmick on the same show," the only way to keep it from getting old
would be to have one turn heel on the other sooner rather than later. Would that even be feasible (keeping in mind not just the domestic audience, but
the fact that both guys would be very protective of their names/legacies in Mexico)?
Pros and cons both ways on this one...
Rick
"He's from Mars, Officer; whiskey does not affect alien beings." -- Venus Flytrap speaking on The Rick
drmuerto
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1240
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posted on 2-27-2011 at 12:55 AM
quote:Originally posted by C.MontgomeryPunk
Albert of the River isn't a much better translated name either when you think about it. Either is Eddie Warrior, Chavo Warrior and Vickie
Warrior.
Except that del Rion and Guerrero are fairly normal sounding and even common last names. They work in the same way that while "smith" literally
means "someone who forges metal", but we regularly just take it to be a guy's last name. So if we can have a Davey Boy Smith or a Bret Hart,
there's no reason we can't have an Chavo Guerrero or Alberto del Rio. Also, I had a Latin professor in college whose last name was
Warrior, and no she wasn't related to Warrior Warrior.
But the F/E has been really bad with Spanish names for a long time. The worst example of this was Essa Rios, whose first name was meant to evoke the
word "ese" in its pronunciation, but was bizarrely written with an 'a' at the end. This made it look like "esa", which means "that
one" when the gender of the one is female, and which would be pronounced with an /a/ as in "cara". More importantly, it's incredibly rare for
a man's proper name to end in an 'a' like that.
I think that Rey Mysterio worked because it was written by a native Spanish speaker and left unchanged. If it had been left up to the E they probably
would have gone with Principa Enygma or something.
The new guy's observation that "Sin Cara" can be taken as a synonym for "descarado" or "impudent" is a really good one and points to the
silly kind of mistake that was made here. Then again, to give credit where it almost assuredly is not due, maybe Mystico will be going heel after all
based on the name choice.
ETA: On the other hand, I never had a problem with Yokozuna as a proper name, and apparently Kaval means
quote:a chromatic end-blown flute traditionally played throughout Azerbaijan, Turkey, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Albania, Kosova, southern Serbia, northern
Greece, Romania (caval), and Armenia. The kaval is primarily associated with mountain shepherds throughout the Balkans and Anatolia.
[Edited on 2-27-2011 by drmuerto]
Yayozama
Turd Generation Superstar
Posts 14
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posted on 2-27-2011 at 02:08 AM
Well, Mistico said that he choosed the name to pay reverence to the masked tradition in the mexican lucha libre.
So, apparently, the WWE didn't have an important part in the name (apart from accepting the name)
ThePunisher
The Great One
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posted on 3-1-2011 at 04:06 AM
So it's official that Jericho is on Dancing with the Stars. I really hope he breaks out a list of all the dances he knows how to do with
"Paso Doble" listed 15 times.
punkerhardcore
The Man
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posted on 3-1-2011 at 04:27 AM
quote:Originally posted by punkerhardcore
Rostro is better, but there's like, three people on the roster who could pronounce it correctly. Cara is probably the better choice, as it
won't be as butchered when said in an American accent.
Well I was wrong, since they couldn't even pronounce Cara correctly tonight.
Edit-- If Jericho came out in character, and cut promos on everyone, I would watch that show every week. I hope he wins and shows up on Raw with the
trophy.
[Edited on 3-1-2011 by punkerhardcore]
Is everyone mad here?
Of course they are, and you are too... otherwise, you wouldn't have come here.
Posts 1569
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Mood: witchy
posted on 3-1-2011 at 04:11 PM
quote:Originally posted by ThePunisher
So it's official that Jericho is on Dancing with the Stars. I really hope he breaks out a list of all the dances he knows how to do with
"Paso Doble" listed 15 times.
I'll watch it. I've never watched any ANY of these particular kinds of shows. Well, I watched "Redemption Song" despite being annoyed
by nearly every female on there. This couldn't be worse than that.
resident sorceress and necromancer in training.
[DevSop] god your sex life scares me
MHJ: "if it is kinky, depraved, erotic, or a fetish, you will find it"
