Stu
Caledonian Crippler 
Posts 3002
Registered 5-17-2005 Location Glasgow, Scotland Member Is Offline Mood: Scottish
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| posted on 8-31-2011 at 05:25 PM |
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So I thought Justice League #1 was a really good first issue. Not jawdropping, but does well in the character interaction and the setup. Art is
fantastic, and I really loved Superman's entrance. My opinion of the new costume varies with the artist, but I definitely think Lee makes it
work. While not as much happens as could have and we don't even see all the members of the team yet, I thought the pacing was fine. The only way
in which I found it a short read was in that it's an "oversized" issue that has 24 pages of story and a sketchbook, rather than being all
story. That's my only real complaint about it.
[Edited on 31-8-11 by Stu]
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"Well, Jeff�s puddle throws up the Shocker, so I guess some things never change."
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Operation Retard
Beats me, I'm gay!
Posts 2957
Registered 1-4-2002 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 9-1-2011 at 05:55 PM |
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yea JL #1 was decent. i enjoyed it. good story. good art. but i definitely wasn't blown away from this new universe full of possibilities. but
it's an easy thumbs up. good play with bats and GL.
flashpoint was atrocious though.
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mark markham
M4M - Looking 2 Meet Texan 5
Posts 586
Registered 6-24-2003 Member Is Offline Mood: Neo Reich rules
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| posted on 9-2-2011 at 05:26 PM |
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Flashpoint wasn't really the greatest "event" series I've ever read, but since the Flash is my favorite character from D.C. (Batman not
withstanding), I probably liked it more than a lot of other readers did. It remains to be seen how much of an impact the "Flashpoint Universe" is
going to have on the reboot. Judging from this JLA issue alone, I'd have to say not very much. The whole thing reminded me of X-Men's Age
of Apocolypse except AOA was better. If I remember correctly the main series even had X solo titles with different interpretations of the mutants and
how they fit into the main series. I thought the JLA episode was pretty good. That redesign of Superman kind of explains the movie pics a little
better. They still need to make sure he at least gets the red belt though.
I'm currently reading all of my comics through comic rack. I'm a belliever in paying for and supporting what you like. If everyone goes to
CR then eventually the titles will get canceled or even worse, the entire company could go under. That being said, $4.99 for the one-shot retroactives
from D.C.? What happened to that drawing the line campaign? As much as I like comics, I would never be able to justify such purchases.
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Operation Retard
Beats me, I'm gay!
Posts 2957
Registered 1-4-2002 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 9-2-2011 at 06:14 PM |
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the retroactives are oversized books.
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mark markham
M4M - Looking 2 Meet Texan 5
Posts 586
Registered 6-24-2003 Member Is Offline Mood: Neo Reich rules
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| posted on 9-2-2011 at 07:20 PM |
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ah, that's makes more sense...comics are still overpriced but it it's double sized at least they have a reason.
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Flash
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1016
Registered 4-22-2005 Location Brantford, Ontario Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 9-3-2011 at 02:59 PM |
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So I finally got in and grabbed Flashpoint #5 and JL #1;
I was a little disappointed by the last part of Flashpoint as I thought the main story felt a little rushed... like this was intended to be a 7 parter
that got condensed into a 5 parter. I will say though, that I thought the Thomas Wayne, Flash and Batman stuff was just excellent. A nice quiet moment
amongst all of the carnage that really resonated and gave a well deserved happy ending to some characters that have often suffered nothing but loss.
Johns really took a page from Meltzer on this one by putting the human elements front and centre.
On the flip side, I was pleasantly suprised by JL#1. I really enjoyed the interactions between Bruce and Hal, and the Superman entrance was well done.
I found it a little odd that they billed Superman as still being a bit of a mystery figure, then said that they heard he was an alien, and then have
Hal's ring be able to find him based on him being an alien... that's nit picking though, and probably something that will be further
fleshed out in Morrisons stuff. The Cyborg intro was well done, and I am interested in seeing where they go with the other members. My only real
complaint was already touched on above about the extra pages... I personally would rather seen them give us story pages and not sketchbook stuff... to
me that's better reserved for trades as bonus material, not the weekly books.
Personaly I would have preferred that if they were going to reset the whole universe they follow it with more books in line with JL, and Action comics
where they are set in the past as I think the oh so desired new readers DC wants are just as apt to be confused by the non-continuity changes in other
books and how they figure into the the flagship titles new continuity... further compounding this is that old readers are going to be out of the loop
as well...
Oh well, both books had their strong points, here's hoping the next issue of JL is all content and less fluffery, but otherwise is just as
strong storywise as the first one.
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Operation Retard
Beats me, I'm gay!
Posts 2957
Registered 1-4-2002 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 9-3-2011 at 04:41 PM |
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i thought flashpoint was terrible. i don't know what it is about barry allen, but he just brings out the worst in geoff johns. i hated rebirth,
i couldn't even force myself to finish 2 issues of the flash series, and flashpoint just capped off the terrible.
ok, so FLASHPOINT SPOILERS ON
code:
so barry goes back in time and saves his mom, and that causes this new world. fine. that one change really shouldn't have changed
so much, but i've been reading comics long enough to accept the "doing that broke time" explanation. you changed something, it broke time,
everything changes. got it. but then he goes back again to change it back, and this time some random woman shows up and tells him he has to put
together the DC, vertigo and wildstorm universes. why this time? of all the time traveling that's gone on in the dc universe, why is this the
time this happens? and who the fuck was that bitch? and why would barry have the ability to put these universes together anyway? fucking
stupid.
FLASHPOINT SPOILERS OFF
since we don't have spoiler code here, i tried to make that as hard to accidnetly read as possible.
anyway, that shit's dumb.
JL #1, it was a fun read, i enjoyed it as far as a first meeting between GL and batman goes, but i'll tell you this. back in the day when
ultimate spider-man #1 came out, i read that book and i knew immediately i had something new and better on my hands. i didn't get that feeling
from this.
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Stu
Caledonian Crippler
Posts 3002
Registered 5-17-2005 Location Glasgow, Scotland Member Is Offline Mood: Scottish
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| posted on 9-3-2011 at 05:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Operation Retard
but i'll tell you this. back in the day when ultimate spider-man #1 came out, i read that book and i knew immediately i had something new and
better on my hands. i didn't get that feeling from this.
Really? I always thought the introductory storyarc of Ultimate Spidey was pretty average, myself, what with The Green Goblin reimagined as some poor
man's Hulk and Uncle Ben not being particularly memorable or that different, despite them making him an old hippy. As much as I prefer Ultimate
May to the regular one, I've always kinda wished they'd have had HER be the one who died in the Ultimate Universe so we could get a
fresher story with Peter and Ben. It was just okay overall and the series got better and better as it went along.
The TWO TIME bOOardie Award and Signed Bret Hart DVD Winner!
"Well, Jeff�s puddle throws up the Shocker, so I guess some things never change."
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Flash
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1016
Registered 4-22-2005 Location Brantford, Ontario Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 9-3-2011 at 07:37 PM |
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It took me a while to settle into Ultimate Spidey, and really I think I bought it for the first while simply because I was really enjoying Ultimate
X-men and the Ultimates (I didn't start buying any of them until after the first arcs). USM grew on me, and I found I enjoyed it more as a
"run" than any one single issue being particularily good or great.
I think a lot of people dismissed the first few issues of USM because Marvel had just done a similar type thing with Byrnes year one (or whatever it
was called).
I don't quite get the level of excitement about JL #1, but that's more because DC rolled this out with very little forethought, and given
their track records with constantly needing to shake things up and/or keep track of things I'm guessing within a year or two we'll be back
to JL being incorporated with the rest of the book lines time frames, which pretty much makes this a big knee jerk marketting campaign, expecially
when we start getting more of the Earth One books later this year, early next year.
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Operation Retard
Beats me, I'm gay!
Posts 2957
Registered 1-4-2002 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 9-4-2011 at 12:02 AM |
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are we supposed to expect JL to stay in the 5 years ago timeline. i always assumed once the origin was taken care of it would move to current time.
have they said otherwise?
USM had me with issue 1. and it was kind of the opposite of what flash was saying about john byrne's chapter one series for me. chapter one
didn't keep me away from USM, but after reading USM #1 i think i liked it so much because i felt it was what chapter one was supposed to be.
byrne was supposed to be updating spidey's origin for the modern era, but all he really did was tell the same stories but point out that peter
has a computer and give electro a terrible new costume. then USM came along and it was like "yes. THIS is what a spider-man comic would look like if
it was invented today."
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Stu
Caledonian Crippler
Posts 3002
Registered 5-17-2005 Location Glasgow, Scotland Member Is Offline Mood: Scottish
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| posted on 9-4-2011 at 12:37 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Operation Retard
are we supposed to expect JL to stay in the 5 years ago timeline. i always assumed once the origin was taken care of it would move to current time.
have they said otherwise?
First arc's a flashback to introduce the team/concept/whatever, then it comes into the present day. Same with Action Comics (preview of which
here by the way).
Oh, good time to ask, but how spoiler sensitive should this thread be? I know OpTard is a trade reader, so it would be kinda hard to talk about
certain things without mentioning recent events in the titles before the reboot (Green Lantern in particular).
Maybe USM's debut didn't have as much impact on me because I read it a couple of years after it came out, and the similarities in plot to
the first Spider-man movie kinda ruined it for me.
Ultimate Six though was pretty bad. The art ruined it for me. Peter just looked really weird in that photorealistic style and they didn't even
try to "adapt" his design for it. His hair was all different and I seem to recall him having fucked up teeth.
The TWO TIME bOOardie Award and Signed Bret Hart DVD Winner!
"Well, Jeff�s puddle throws up the Shocker, so I guess some things never change."
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MrJustinB
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1590
Registered 1-18-2003 Member Is Offline Mood: Blue and Orange
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| posted on 9-4-2011 at 07:15 PM |
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Yeah. Picked up JL 1, and the last regular numbered jsa, and lantern titles. The JL read was real good, and Lee's drawing of Hal and Bruce were
pretty badass. Though, I'm still trouble getting used to Clark looking so young. I guess the age difference is kind of the point, though. I
wonder if, in other's hands, will Clark look older? Will that be a Lee thing?
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Flash
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1016
Registered 4-22-2005 Location Brantford, Ontario Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 9-4-2011 at 11:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Stu
Oh, good time to ask, but how spoiler sensitive should this thread be? I know OpTard is a trade reader, so it would be kinda hard to talk about
certain things without mentioning recent events in the titles before the reboot (Green Lantern in particular)
I think we're all not that dickish that we'd want to go out of our way to spoil something really big, but at the same time this is a
weekly/monthly thing, so there is a "real time" element to it much like Monday night Raw. In saying that I don't think I'd treat this
thread like SD either though, as spoilers may be available in advance, but not all of us are at the store each and every Wednesday.
So maybe apply the same tact as one would when discussing a new movie...? ie fair game after a week or two? Otherwise try and stay to the broad
strokes, or flag a paragraph for spoilers? Thoughts?
I'm disappointed to here that they are going to be condensing the Action and JL timelines back into the constant status quo of 5-7 years into
everyone's careers. We've seen that and experienced these stories pretty much since the creation of these characters with the exception of
Byrne's initial run of books in 87' where he did kind of explore the characters experiencing things for the first time (like Supes vs
magic). I'd love to read about Batman first dealing with the Joker or The Penguin, Superman having a chubb for Wonder Woman instead of Lois, or
the birth of the Teen Titans... ect.
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Stu
Caledonian Crippler
Posts 3002
Registered 5-17-2005 Location Glasgow, Scotland Member Is Offline Mood: Scottish
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| posted on 9-5-2011 at 12:21 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Flash
I'd love to read about Batman first dealing with the Joker or The Penguin
with those two specifically I don't see any reason why "The Man Who Laughs" isn't a good enough Joker debut story (same as why Year One
doesn't need to be replaced, though I wouldn't mind a "Secret Origins" about the years Bruce spent training) and
Penguin is actually getting a mini-series that's going to explore his backstory, so that
might cover his original criminal activities, albeit from his point of view.
quote:
or the birth of the Teen Titans... ect.
The new Teen Titans are meant to be the first Teen Titans of this new timeline(I know, I know...).
The TWO TIME bOOardie Award and Signed Bret Hart DVD Winner!
"Well, Jeff�s puddle throws up the Shocker, so I guess some things never change."
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Flash
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1016
Registered 4-22-2005 Location Brantford, Ontario Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 9-5-2011 at 01:07 AM |
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I was just throwing those out there as examples, but I hope you kinda get my point... its like we're constantly locked into this status quo
state when it comes to the comics. Bruce's early pre-Year one days would be interesting to really explore the birth of the heroes, or
alternatively I'd be just as interested in seeing them go the other direction and explore some of these characters growing up... for example,
have they ever really had Bruce and Damien Wayne interact since the creation of the character? To the best of my knowledge he's really only ever
just been there... Yeah Bruce has been gone, but its something I'd like to see sometime in the future... actual character development.
I think the other problem with the fixed status quo is that you start getting more and more problems with continuity... You touched on this
incarnation of the Teen Titans being the first ever... that's fine, but how did Dick and Roy meet? How about Wally and Wanda? If we're
only 5 years into the career of Batman what's going on with the various Robins... is he going through one a year? How did Jason Todd age so fast
then? What about Barbara? Was Bruce still in a wheelchair for a while after the Bane stuff? Did Cataclysm happen and some of the ensuing stuff that
lead to Stephanie being Robin and then "dying"... ect.
As a long time reader I get the sense that we're like 15+ years into the current continuity. I think Byrne after his relaunch stated that the
ongoing titles took place 10 years after the MOS mini so that there was still some sense of history being there and to account for things like Dick
Grayson, the teen titans, JLA, and all those other bits and pieces of history (although I think saying its 5 years in would fit a little better)...
point is, after investing all of that time into the books I've at least got a sense of where things fit.
With this new continuity there doesn't seem to be any clear cut "plan", and its just as confusing to long time readers as it is to the new
ones they hope to attract. I presently buy around 10 or more DC titles a month plus a good amount of the different mini's that come up or things
like Brightest day as they come out and I hardly ever feel rewarded for it... big stuff happens outside of the titles themselves and what's
worse, none of it really matters anymore in light of this reboot that's not really a reboot, lol ... I kinda feel like I'm buying a book
in installments and they've now decided that they aren't going to publish the ending to the story, but are still going to tell it because
its a good story, they just didn't get the right kind of readers the first go around.
I'll keep buying, cause let's face it, I'm an addict, but over the last year I have been voting with my dollars a lot more by not
buying any of the miniseries that come out (like all the flashpoint stuff... if they can't tell it in the core book, why should I spend more?)
and actually stop buying some ongoing stuff (when they took superman out of his own titles). DC has continued to make me question my loyalty to them
(I'm not a marvel guy, so this argument isn't that) This current marketting attempt may be designed to grab new readers, but its also
gives cue to guys like me that this is a good time to jump off as well... even the new Justice League book seems designed to do that as well... the
first 6 issues are designed to hook us as its the big origin, but then issue 7 jumping ahead 5 years gives me no reason to keep reading because its a
restart all on its own instead of growth upon the first 6 issues.... its poorly planned out and almost gives us permission to just sample this book
instead of getting hooked on it and want to stay with it.
Lol, rant over!
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Operation Retard
Beats me, I'm gay!
Posts 2957
Registered 1-4-2002 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 9-5-2011 at 04:46 PM |
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i think in terms of spoilers, we don't need to put timeframes or rules. to me it's a lot of common sense. like you mention green lantern.
i assume you're referring to the fact that sinestro is now a green lantern. now as it just so happens i have read war of the green lanterns, but
even if i hadn't i would still know that sinestro is a green lantern. it's on the cover and it's in solicits. so if you need a rule
of thumb, i'd say if it's on a cover it's fair game. but if i hadn't read those issues yet and you mentioned WHY the ring
chose sinestro, i'd be pretty pissed. even with all the time it's been since that issue.
especially since this thread ISN'T specifically about green lantern. lets pretend for a moment that that thing i'm talking about from war
of the green lanterns actually happened in issue 2 of the new GL series, and really had a place in this thread. if i'm just a guy who reads this
thread title and goes in, i have no idea specific green lantern plot points are gonna be talked about in here. i'm expecting general statements
about a new dc universe. i'm expecting someone to "think this new superman is kinda a dick and i don't really care for him," not that
"i can't believe superman is actually being friendly with lex luthor." (for the record, those are both made up statements. i have no idea what
the new superman is gonna be like) the first statement is an impression of the new superman, the 2nd is a plot point.
if you really need to talk about something specific i think, you can either elude to it, like i did with the GL thing (anyone who's read it
knows what i'm talking about, anyone who hasn't it doesn't give anything away) or make it easily skipable like i did with my
flashpoint talk up above.
or, if it's a really big deal, start a new spoilers on thread for that title. just that title, not every title. just because someone's up
on green lantern, doesn't mean they're up on batman, and they may want to talk green lantern without having batman spoiled.
in other news...
i'm about 98% positive that i read didio say this is in fact NOT the first team to call themselves the teen titans.
and flash, i don't think a single thing you just said made sense.
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Flash
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1016
Registered 4-22-2005 Location Brantford, Ontario Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 9-5-2011 at 11:19 PM |
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Lol, I probably got into full on "rant" mode and lost my point in there somewhere 
Basically Optard; my point is this;
I see the last 25 years that I've been reading comic books as an investment into the stories they are telling. For simplicity sake, the
pre-flashpoint DC universe started with Byrne's MOS mini effectively being year 1 of a new DC continuity. Once the mini series was over they
kind of jumped a few years in order to have things like the age of Dick, Roy, Wanda, and Wally kind of make sense and to allow for certain big events
to have happened (ie Jason Todd's death, formation of the teen titans, JLA).
I think its pretty understood that all comics have a floating timeline, but in saying that because of some pretty big events; mostly deaths like
Superman, Ollie, Hal or other stuff like Superman's exile in space, Batman in a wheelchair, Cataclysm, Clark and Lois's marriage, Dick
groing up, Roy's child... ect... We can say that at least several years have passed.
For arguments sake let's say that since the kick of off MOS we're about 15 years into the lives of our heroes.
Since Infinite Crisis and One year later there have been some tweeks and hinted at changes, but by and large there hasn't been anything overly
contradictory to this single timeline idea... although IMO this is where DC started losing their editorial focus by failing to properly define what
did change, and co-ordinate amongst themselves on where they were collectively heading.
If the present post flashpoint continuity is to be believed (or at least DC's undefined talk) we're about five years in, which means that
we now have a really hyper condensed time frame for many of the key bullet points in characters histories;
Take Batman for example;
You've got about 5 different robins, 3 batwomen/girls, a broken back, cataclysm, Bruce being "dead" and an accelerated aging process on a
number of characters (damien in particular, as he is the product of Batman and Talia so Bruce would have had to have been batman).
These things work when spread out over a 15 year character span, but when condensed into such a shorter time frame some of the stuff just
doesn't work anymore which means some stuff will have to be cut out.
So what's in and what's out? Why does there seem to be a lack of direction to the books (a few notable exceptions like Johns GL run)
By starting at the same some stuff has happened, some stuff hasn't type floating time line that they have always been stuck in (or the status
quo) DC isn't doing anything to really attract new readers other than making everything a first issue and offering up what amounts to two new
introductory arcs (action and JL respectively). After the introductory arcs they are jumping right back into the fixed timeline.
For long time readers who have invested several years into this "continuity" we're now in the same confused boat as the new readers that DC
covets, except our years of investment have been disregarded in favour of a hastily put together reboot (several titles were delayed, launched only
to be quickly cancelled, or solicited past Flashpoint... so you can tell that while as a story Flashpoint may have been planned a year in advance,
this reboot and surrounding marketing is only a few months old... you could also point to the 2010 DC universe Legacies series as another queue that
they had no intention of restarting things again as this was meant to fill in the post infinit crisis changes).... Basically we never got the
ending to our stories that they deserved.
IMO, not the best way to treat long time fans as you risk losing a few of them in pursuit of the new readers they need to keep going. Its a business,
and I get that things are in trouble right now, but I think they could have handled this much better.
DC still has intentions to continue with a line of graphic novels that will share a single continuity called Earth One... we've already gotten
JMS's Superman, and Geoff Johns has a Batman title due out later this year or early next year. If DC has a new line of new reader friendly books
set to go, why reboot the other series of books, expecially when you risk upsetting current readers?
The other problem I see is that more and more often very little is happening in the monthly titles in favour of mini series and big event books. Its
almost like books are being written more often to be tailor made for the trade paperback market in the hopes of gaining sales from new readers, or
casual readers who don't want to grab the single issues each week/month... this practice again alienates those that do take the time and effort
to support the company on an ongoing basis. While the need for new readers and TP sales are important to the business, so is sustainable income, and
its there that I think they are going to suffer with the lack of direction in the last few years or to coin a wrestling term "stunt booking" for
when it comes to the story telling.
I presently buy about 10 DC universe titles (I also buy Vertigo stuff, but I think of that as seperate), but with the new changes there are about 5
must have books that I'll continue to buy, and about 3-4 I'll give a chance to for as long as the writing team I like is on the book...
although I must confess that some series like Swamp thing, Justice League, and Action comics I may just wait for the trades on because I know
they'll have a quick turn over rate and will be written in a fairly disposable self contained single arc story.... I have to wonder how many
other long time readers are contemplating this same move (actually from speaking with my local comic dealer it sounds like a lot of long time readers
are going to be taking this wait and see approach).
I'm not saying change is bad, as sometimes it can be a good thing; case in point 1986's Crisis on infinite earths, but I think it needs to
be well thought out change and not poorly planned. Crisis gave us a definitive finish to a timeline with a clear start and finish point. The post
crisis jump on point was very user friendly to both new and old readers... post Flashpoint does not seem to be offering this, or at least DC is not
making any efforts to set anyone's mind at ease other than to say wait and see, something their track records haven't always done a good
job of fulfilling.
Anyway, I hope this makes more sense than my first post... i'll continue to buy the books because I love them (and some of them continue to blow
away my expectations), but as someone who's read the current continuity/timeline of DC books since the early 1990's and who has filled in
a good chunk of the late 80's stuff I'm disappointed with how I feel readers like myself are being treated, and the obvious lack of
direction and planning that I see coming from the company.
If they are going to effect change, then use that change to explore new things and actually build something more than more status quo.
ETA: I hope this makes a bit more sense...? If not I think trying to describe what I'm feeling may be beyond my writing abilities
[Edited on 9-5-2011 by Flash]
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Stu
Caledonian Crippler
Posts 3002
Registered 5-17-2005 Location Glasgow, Scotland Member Is Offline Mood: Scottish
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| posted on 9-7-2011 at 08:08 PM |
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Week 2 thoughts, with minor spoilers:
Action Comics: Fantastic. Lives up to it's name, full of action, with wonderfull art and doesn't waste time getting into things. Maybe a
little confusing as it moves at a fast pace and throws a lot of info at us about the status quo of this era (with Clark's job, how he relates to
Jimmy and Lois, Luthor and General Lane's appearance, him being around for 6 months already) but still good stuff.
Batgirl: Good, but not all I wanted it to be. A bit too dark, as I expected a few more laughs to balance out the serious/gritty stuff. That balance
may come as the book introduced a supporting character and background for Babs. I like the new villain's look and potential, but he's a
bit undefined, and if you think about it, doesn't actually do much that's physically impressive. Babs is written very recognisably to me
from when Simone's used her before, with the same determination and focus, just younger and with some baggage from the Killing Joke. A few
clunky lines though, when Babs tries to talk tough with "Little Man"s an such. Only title I didn't spot a "Flashpoint Lady" cameo in this
week.
Batwing: Wow. Nice job. Gorgeous art, with a main character I want to know more about, and respect for the setting and people of it. Just could have
done with the graphic violence being toned down a bit, and the villain seems a bit on the nose with his name and MO. But in general, Winick
didn't fuck it up, probably because he kept it fairly grounded, which is when he seems to do his better stuff in my experience.
Detective Comics: Just ok. The art is the strongest thing about it, as the story is your bread and butter type of Batman story. Hunting the Joker,
talking to Gordon before disappearing in mid conversation, with some other plot going on the background. Typical stuff, and Daniel writes it well
enough. 2 things though bother me. Alfred(you'll see what I mean when you read it), and the WTF last page, which honestly makes me wobble on
whether this is going to stay at "ok" level. I'll need to see where it goes though.
JLI: Also good, if feeling a little old-fashioned in the writing. Nice art, and Jurgens is working to establish the gang's relationship as a
team as the old JLI stuff is apparently no longer canon. Fairly light tone, but with a "straight" mission and some personal issues brewing already.
Unclear on how much of Booster Gold's IC-52-Solo Series character development is intact, because they allude to him being the PR-hungry product
endorsment guy, but he exhibits an attitude of being serious about the job, if a bit unsure of how to go about it, and Batman sticks up for him.
Pretty dumb subplot though with people protesting them using the Hall of Justice as a base.
Stormwatch: This was really good. Art was a bit rough in a few places(check out Hawksmoor's feet!), but I really liked the character dynamics
and the story being set up(they're fighting the MOON!) and the hints at other DCU stuff going on with the little glimpse at the team's
history.
Swamp Thing: Wasn't originally planning to get this, but Paquette on art and Snyder writing had me give it a go. Maybe a bit too talky, but they
build up some good tension with the malevolent force that's introduced suitably horrific and scary, and Holland's conflict about embracing
the green was explained well, with a nice little hook for issue 2 at the end. Going to give it an arc at least.
Overall: Pretty happy with so far. There's a few niggles, most of all just of all the questions that are raised with regards to what's
happened before or who some of the characters are. A number of the series are starting in media res, and either aren't explaining certain things
right away, or are doing so in a bit of an inelegant way(e.g. the Projectionist explaining her powers in Stormwatch) and in some cases I feel the
story would work with the context of other titles. For instance rom what I've heard, issue one of "Batman" is meant to set the scene pretty
well for how things are with the Bat-titles, so I have to wonder if they should have published that before Detective. As a long-time reader I am
trying to go into it with the attitude of not getting hung up on the past where it's not relevant to the story and just waiting for things to be
established as they come up, but I guess I'm a bit impatient.
[Edited on 7-9-11 by Stu]
The TWO TIME bOOardie Award and Signed Bret Hart DVD Winner!
"Well, Jeff�s puddle throws up the Shocker, so I guess some things never change."
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Flash
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1016
Registered 4-22-2005 Location Brantford, Ontario Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 9-9-2011 at 04:06 AM |
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Despite all my whining I did wind up buying several DC books this week;
Detective Comics: Stu kinda nailed it in his assessment, as the two same things really bugged me, expecially the last page... also minor gripe,
(i'll have to go back to confirm) but it looks like Joker's been reverted back to his pre-morrison look. I'm thinking the last page
is a misleader, as I just can't see that really making sense.
The art was excellent, and I respect Daniel's efforts at writing, but I think he could benefit a lot from being paired up with a more
established writer to help give him a bit of direction, much the same way DC is doing with Finch by pairing him with Jenkins.
Swamp Thing: I've gotten to be a huge fan of Snyders between American Vampire and his run on detective (somehow snyder's tone just seems
better suited for detective IMO) so this one was on my list of books to give a chance to, and it paid off. It doesn't look like he's going
to be doing something in the same vein as Alan Moore's approach, but isntead combining a bit of horror with some Super Heroics as Snyder
isn't shy about the guest stars in this one. I'm betting Arcane makes a re-apperance at some point in the near future.... I like the book,
but I might shift this one over to my list of stuff to buy when its in trades.
Action Comics; I enjoyed this one a lot more than I thought I would largely because Morrison seems to be staying away from a lot of the big event -
time/multiverse stuff (at least for now) that he has such a hard on for. This was a very good introduction for the character and did somewhat set him
apart from the main, or previous, incarnation of Superman. If you can get your hands on the Jim Lee variant cover its absolutely gorgeous.
My big complaint though, and maybe it was just this issue and not something that will be ongoing, but Superman felt like he was a boy playing dress
up... maybe its the "make believe" outfit he's wearing that makes me think of a kid wearing a towel around his neck for a cape, but he was
almost cocky or taunting both the bad guys and the police, so it gave him a very weird vibe that I'm not liking... although maybe some tradgedy
happens in the near future to Superman and Morrison's just setting the stage for a big character change as he'll grow up?
Justice League International; This was a impulse buy as I'm a big fan of Dan Jurgens so I figured I'd give it a shot. I think its still a
little too early to tell, but it was enjoyable enough. My one complaint is that Guy name drops Hal as being on the main JL team, which fits with the
JL book being set in the past, but not with what we know of the current continuity that takes place after all the goings on in the GL books... So
their either going to retcon or have yet to disclose something about Hal, or the editors maybe messed up already with being on the same page as the
other books.
It came out a few weeks ago but I just grabbed it this week, but Superman Beyond #0 was a nice read, and fits in beautifully with the very excellent
Batman Beyond series that is on a minor hiatus due to all the 52 stuff... The BB series is very good with a lot of references to the cartoon, but kind
of taking off on its own at the same time.
I'm looking forward to see what Snyder's going to do on Batman with being the one to really be able to set the stage. I'll miss his
two former Detective artists as I loved both of their styles, but I am interested to see what Capullo can do free from having to clone his style to
McFarlands for so long... worst comes to worst the art will wind up on the same level as Daniel's.
Otherwise I'll be grabbing Perez's Superman, and John's Aquaman and GL in the next few weeks... (although I was/am pretty tempted to
give Batgirl a try with Simone writing it and Bab's being back in the suit?)
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Operation Retard
Beats me, I'm gay!
Posts 2957
Registered 1-4-2002 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 9-9-2011 at 02:19 PM |
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where have they announced the current state of the justice league in present that makes you think hal wouldn't still be with the team? or are
you just referring to his current state where war of the GLs left off?
cuz if that's what you're saying then i think you're way off base. not every comic takes place at the same time. not every comic has
to reflect what every comic has going on that exact week. how do you know this JLI issue doesn't take place before war of the GLs? how do you
know they don't plan on putting hal back soon enough that it's not worth having it effect other books at this point? how do you know guy
isn't just simply speaking in generalities, regardless of hal's current situation.
there are comics that span a month is 22 pages, there are comics that span 2 days over 6 issues. you can't expect every comic that comes out on
9/14 to take place after the books on 9/7 and before the books on 9/21
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Stu
Caledonian Crippler
Posts 3002
Registered 5-17-2005 Location Glasgow, Scotland Member Is Offline Mood: Scottish
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| posted on 9-9-2011 at 05:50 PM |
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quote:
but it looks like Joker's been reverted back to his pre-morrison look.
I don't know if reverted is the right word, as before the relaunch other people did use him and went with a more traditional appearance with no
bullet scar, so it's nothing new. I liked what he was wearing on the train though, but that's probably just meant to be a disguise and not
an actual costume.
quote:
My big complaint though, and maybe it was just this issue and not something that will be ongoing, but Superman felt like he was a boy playing
dress up... maybe its the "make believe" outfit he's wearing that makes me think of a kid wearing a towel around his neck for a cape, but he
was almost cocky or taunting both the bad guys and the police, so it gave him a very weird vibe that I'm not liking... although maybe some
tradgedy happens in the near future to Superman and Morrison's just setting the stage for a big character change as he'll grow up?
While I think he will grow up a bit, I do believe his cockiness is going to be a consistent trait from now on, just to combat the "boy scout" image
that puts some off. He's still a pretty nice guy as he goes out of his way not to harm the cops, and only fights back once the innocent people
are nearly killed. Morrison said that he was going to write Luthor so he was "almost the hero", so maybe something he does or says makes Superman
realise he's not doing things as well as he could be and he changes. Of course, in Swamp Thing they indicate Death of Superman still happened,
so he could have been a bit humbled by that.
And Guy didn't mention the Justice League specifically. He just complained about being with a group of heroes he thought were jokes while
"[Batman], Superman and Hal play in the majors", which yeah, probably alludes to Hal having been on the JL, but I think more that Guy has NEVER been
on the Justice League, despite his ability and experience. He's basically having a rant at his unwanted second-tier status, never being the
"main" Green Lantern, with Hal, Kyle and John having more recognition for their JL work, while his first assignment with a League is a spinoff
filled with people he hasn't heard of and lead by someone he thinks he's better than. Even in the old continuity, the JLI was depicted as
being (unfairly) remembered as a bit of a joke
The TWO TIME bOOardie Award and Signed Bret Hart DVD Winner!
"Well, Jeff�s puddle throws up the Shocker, so I guess some things never change."
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Operation Retard
Beats me, I'm gay!
Posts 2957
Registered 1-4-2002 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 9-9-2011 at 06:08 PM |
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you go, booster!
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Stu
Caledonian Crippler
Posts 3002
Registered 5-17-2005 Location Glasgow, Scotland Member Is Offline Mood: Scottish
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| posted on 9-15-2011 at 07:29 PM |
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Week 3:
Batman and Robin: This one was a bit of a relief after the decent, but as noted, typical writing on Detective that took Batman back to the grim loner
version that was the norm pre-Morrison. The Preview for B&R; suggested more of the same, only to in fact address and acknowledge Batman's desire
to move on and be more of a positive force in the world, and to forge more of a bond with Damian, though this is shown to be easier said than done,
and the sparks fly between the pair in interesting fashion. We also get the new villain Nobody, who I like the look and MO of, despite the
overfamiliarity of his powers and "knows Bruce from his past" apparent backstory. Gleason drew Tomasi's arc on the prior Batman and Robin
series and was good, but with this he seems to have really worked a little bit harder.
Batwoman: The very long awaited title comes packing a lot in. Kate Kane is investigating an apparently supernatural case, trying to mentor her neice
Better Kane into being a new sidekick, rebuking her dad's attempts to make up(which incorporates a bit of a catchup on what's came before
for the character), and trying to start a new relationship. Oh, and the DEO are taking an interest in her activities. All of this somehow gets enough
of the issue's pages to matter and not feel rushed or crammed in, and the art by JW Williams III is obviously fantastic.
Demon Knights: FUN. That's the word I'd describe this. Just lots of entertaining moments and every characters gets to make an impression,
albeit without much being explained so far. The villains look suitably like a couple of evil bastards and the art's real nice. Too bad
it'll probably be cancelled within a year due to being a swords and sorcery book in a Superhero line, and because the writer is cursed with that
sort of thing.
Green Lantern: A bit weird this one to rate. I expected/wanted more of Sinestro and more action, but we actually got quite a bit of Hal Jordan's
current crappy situation on earth, which I found oddly satisfying after the guy being the big shot of the series for so long, but it was always a bit
sketchy as I feel it skipped over some things, like that girlfriend he has that hasn't been seen since...the first issue of Blackest Night I
think? She didn't even get mentioned. What we saw of Sinestro's plight was good, but again...I want more! Mahnke's as good as usual,
but I do find that whenever he's just drawing normal people out of costume...they just come off looking creepy. Case in point, check out the
panel where Hal asks "What are you doing tomorrow night?". AGH! The dynamic of things and the cliffhanger at the end makes me think I'll
definitely like this whole story, but as a single issue, a bit lacking for a #1. Clearly DC are comfortable with how well the franchise was doing
pre-relaunch and aren't in much of a mood to change things.
Mr. Terrific: This was better than the preview made it out to be. Opened with him taking down a villain to show him as a man of action and
ingenuity(also in London, adding a welcome international flavour for my part), explains his backstory a bit and gives him something to tackle that
seems right up his alley. No sign of who's behind it yet. Art's pretty good too and I find Michael pretty likeable and a bit more easy
going than I've usually seen him written. There was some clunky dialogue here and there though(some elaboration on how a GPS going haywire could
result in Terrific's wife's accident would be nice), and most jarring a few weird moments where the subject of race comes up, one
objectionable to me just for logical reasons. Terrific telling a couple of people he's saved they could just say "Thanks, Black Guy" even
though one of them is black and people don't really talk like that in real life, do they? Another with Karen Starr(still Power Girl or not?
Dunno) having a confusing and awkward moment with Terrific's equivalent of Pepper Potts. Just very anvillicious to me.
[Edited on 15-9-11 by Stu]
The TWO TIME bOOardie Award and Signed Bret Hart DVD Winner!
"Well, Jeff�s puddle throws up the Shocker, so I guess some things never change."
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Stu
Caledonian Crippler
Posts 3002
Registered 5-17-2005 Location Glasgow, Scotland Member Is Offline Mood: Scottish
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| posted on 9-22-2011 at 11:54 PM |
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Batman: Really great debut issue, and one I think they should have put out first instead of Detective. Snyder gives us some action, a look into
Bruce's thoughts, an introduction to the greater cast of Bat characters for the uninitiated, and a new case with an interesting cliffhanger at
the end. Capullo's art's gorgeous and despite Snyder's whole thing about "Gotham is turning on Batman", the overall issue still
manages to be a lot of fun.
Birds of Prey: As a fan of Simone's BoP I was dismayed at the title being relaunched with a new premise and creative team (well half, as they
kept Jesus Saiz on), but I thought I'd give the book a chance since I liked Swierczynski's work on Immortal Iron Fist. It was a perfectly
good issue. It had action, some humour, jumped right into the plot, and Saiz's work is excellent. There are of course niggles. Primary being
some confusing indications that the book's past still may have happened, with Dinah and Barbara knowing each other, but for some reason they
seem to have had a falling out, and Babs doesn't want to be on the team. No mention is made of the old group, but them sharing some history and
the reference to Dinah being wanted from murder alludes to it, it seems. But it's hard to imagine any past version of BoP existing with how Babs
is portrayed in Batgirl. As Oracle, she was loaded and funding her operations, as Barbara Gordon, she's been living with her dad and has to find
a place to flatshare. This could all be explained as her losing it somehow, but I doubt that'll happen. Also, I don't know about the new
character Starling. She seems fine enough as a crazier counterpoint to Dinah's more measured way, but could we not have just had Zinda Blake in
that role? Or Huntress? Anyway, sticking with it, despite these things.
Blue Beetle: Fuck you, I liked it.
Catwoman: Yes, this book was filled with gratuitous fanservice, and yes it ended with a pretty limit-pushing sex scene that's gotten some
people's knickers in a twist, but I don't find anything Catwoman actually DOES in the book to be particularly out of character for her.
She's a thrill-junkie who constantly walks the razor's edge between the heroism and villainy and constantly gets mixed up in all sorts of
dealings with shady people. None of what happened in this was really new for her, though admittedly they've reset her history to her and Batman
not knowing each other's identities, tossing out a bunch of stories and character development, but I can also see their trying to give us some
form of Catwoman people only exposed to the Michelle Pfeiffer incarnation could recognise. It's also another book that's not about a
crimefighter or superhero. It's a thief, playing the underworld and looking for a big score, and crossing some very bad people. It's good
to see some diversity in genre in the line(I'd like a martial arts book though), and I liked the story so far, blatantness of the presentation
aside.
DC Universe Presents: This title's the one I'm hoping will be a real gem and stick around for a while. There's a lot of characters
who are unaccounted for with the relaunch and this can be where they get their chance to shine, and beginning with Deadman was a fine start. We get an
introduction to him, still fresh into his time as a wandering spirit, trying to do good, but not having a lot of confidence in himself, ending the
issue with a surprising move I didn't see coming. The way this is all presented made me think more now that the Deadman tv series can work.
It's basically a supernatural Quantum Leap, with a more flawed protagonist and the potential for many different settings and stories. Why a man
would be forced to have to do this for what basically amounts to being a bit of a jerk in life is still a mystery though. Chang's style is well
suited to the story, and the tonal clash of the more lighter moments (Deadman possessing multiple people to try to have a conversation with someone
who denies it's real, and a stuntman with a deathwish due to being given an embarassing name) with the more somber stuff of the guy he's
helping out now.
Green Lantern Corps: Unlike Green Lantern last week, we get a proper introductory issue here, showing us some of Guy Gardner and John Stewart's
lives on Earth, with the kind of men they are and also some expositiong regarding the nature of the Corps. Despite the fact he used to be Hal
Jordan's partner and a main JL member, Stewart's been relegated to the spinoff titles for a whoe and has been kind of a one note
"disciplined ex-military guy" in his characterisation, so I think he needed to have his "ordinary" life shown a bit to flesh him out as a
principled guy and also to explain why he and Guy feel more like they belong out in space than on Earth. We also got new villains who we don't
see much of, just introduced killing a couple of GLs. This is my issue with the book. The gore. The Green Lantern titles have been more graphically
violent since Rebirth, so I didn't expect that to change much, but I still HOPED it would. I don't really get why a Cosmic series about
alien space cops dealing with big itergalactic threats should be so concerned with evisceration, decapitationg and general dismemberment. Or why it
has to be depicted so graphically. I don't need to see innards to get that someone's been cut in half. Also the villain, explained little,
is known from the solicits to be something from the past with a grudge against the Guardians...which has gotten to be quite a cliche in Green Lantern
the last few years. I wish the series was a more episodic thing, emphasising the "space cop" aspect with more varied "cases", and lots of
different Green Lanterns appearing. Still, I liked Tomasi when he wrote the book before, and he's Pasarin handles his ideas well, depicting the
various locations from the mundane to the fantastic pretty well.
Nightwing: Dick Grayson's back as Nightwing and we don't linger too much on the the specifics of why. It seems to be his choice and one
he's happy with, as he tries to resettle into a more independant lifestyle without the Bat-mantle again, but still maintaining his ties with
Bruce. It's another kind of introductory issue, as Haley's Circus being back in time gives reason to re-explain his history and emphasise
his acrobatics. Eddy Barrows depicts the city and the action well, though his design for the villain, an unnamed assassin, is a bit uninspired.
There's also a bit of sloppiness with the story in some areas. Dick fights some psycho on a train at the beginning of the issue, without any
explanation as to what the guy's deal is, and there's a confusing moment at the end when he's sporting Nightwing's symbol on
his chest in blood, when he wasn't at the start of the fight. Did he do that himself? Did Nightwing to leave a message? Dick doesn't
comment on the incident at all throughout the rest of the issue, so I'm inclined to believe it's not important, despite the way that was
all depicted. There's also the matter of the main villain somehow not being able to put two and two together as Dick disappears as he attacks
him, only for Nightwing to show up shortly after, said costume change also leading to some collateral damage that you really feel Dick should have
known was going to happen. I also have to wonder if the story here is connected to the one in Batman #1(if you read both you'll see) otherwise,
it's a weird coincidence that really stands out more than it should.
Red Hood and the Outlaws: Eeh. Dunno how to sum this one up. I gave the first issue of this a try because I liked the artist Kenneth Rocafort's
work on Madame Mirage and Action Comics, a standard he does actually deliver quite well here. I DID also actually kinda dig the buddy action comedy
aspect of the story with Red Hood and Roy Harper as partners who aren't exactly squabbling, but you can tell are kinda meant to have some
occasional goofy clashes. Some say Roy's been changed to a yutz to make Jason Todd look cooler, and maybe they're right, but it's
still better than the one armed, drug addict, impotent, dead cat swinging, daughter mourning depiction they seem to be completely erasing with this.
The main plot is a bit of a wait and see thing, since it's dependant on a bunch of stuff from Jason's past we're not told
about(along with any explanation as to Jason's switch to being a merc rather than a Punisher wannabe), but does seem to be setting up a lot of
action next issue. The thing though is the depiction of Starfire, who's always been a fanservicey character, being a loving, "open" alien
character and a skimpy costume...but here it's really gone into overdrive, complete with a chracter alteration that has her offering Roy Harper
sex to pass the time, while showing an attitude that doesn't seem that warm at all or even holds humans (even the Titans) as her equals. She
even seems to not remember any time spent with Dick Grayson and Co. I was fine with Catwoman's personality in her own book because it does seem
a reasonable approximation of who she's been, but with Starfire, it's a retcon(well maybe not, as it is brought up as being someting Roy
finds strange) that makes me a bit uncomfortable to read, and kinda reduces her to JUST something pretty to look at with none of the heart.
Wonder Woman: Really liked it, but I do feel it's maybe getting a bit overrated. For a new introduction to Wonder Woman, after how different The
Odyssey made her, she really felt a bit inconsequential as a character in the book. She gets one scene to really make an impression as a character,
then we get her in a fight scene. Other than the fact the plot revolved around the Greek Gods, it felt like you could have had any other hero in her
place doing the same stuff. It's still a good story, the brief character time we get wtih her does seem spot on (strong, alert, but also
protective) and Chiang's art is wonderfull, especially in the use of colour, but Azzarello could have done more with Wonder Woman herself. Is he
just taking it for granted we'd know what she's meant to be a charging on with just another story? Is that simply what she needs, rather
than every new writer trying to remake the status quo and fix her? Maybe. Definitely coming back.
The TWO TIME bOOardie Award and Signed Bret Hart DVD Winner!
"Well, Jeff�s puddle throws up the Shocker, so I guess some things never change."
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Operation Retard
Beats me, I'm gay!
Posts 2957
Registered 1-4-2002 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 9-23-2011 at 05:32 PM |
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so i've finally read a couple of the books. i'm basically just reading #1s of books i wasn't sure if i really wanted to collect.
i'm waiting for trade on batman and robin, JL (though i did read issue 1), JLI, and the 4 lantern books. i decided to read the issue 1's
of action comics, nightwing, teen titans and after a bunch of positive reviews added batman to the list.
so far i've action and batman.
first off, action. what the hell are you people talking about? what is anyone talking about? people are raving about this book and i thought it was
pretty terrible. it wasn't fun, it wasn't interesting, the dialogue was disjointed, half the time i didn't know what people were
talking about. rags morales art wasn't close to the level of quality he had on identity crisis. and as for story or plot, it didn't bring
anything additional to the table than its concept. you go into it knowing that it's a younger less powerful superman not trusted by the city.
ok. that's a good concept. then you read it and all you get is 29 pages of a younger less powerful story not trusted by the city. nothing else.
no intrigue, no mystery, no actual plot. just this is who he is and the situation he's in. which would almost be ok, being that it's an
issue 1, IF it was written well. which i don't think it was at all. even for grant morrison. i'm very glad i got this issue and
didn't wait for the trade. i'd be pretty pissed to spend $20-30 and not want to continue after chapter 1.
on the flip side there's batman. i wasn't originally planning on even trying this book but like action everyone all over has been calling
it a great surprise. and this is a book i was glad i read. it worked great as an issue 1 and it worked great as an issue 714. i felt like i was
reading an episode of the animated series while set in the current DCU. there really wasn't an aspect of the bat mythos that didn't show
up and the mystery/ending has me interested. i'm actually sorry i'll have to wait 6-10 months to read the rest of this when the trade
comes out.
so that's where i'm at. i've got nightwing sitting here but haven't read it yet, and i'll pick up titans when it comes
out. i hope to be as pleasantly surprised by titans as i was by batman, as right now that book looks like it's gonna be terrible.
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