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Author: Subject: The New 52 or DCnU...or what happened to my comics?
Flash
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posted on 10-2-2011 at 10:14 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I liked Aquaman. I thought it was a fairly harmless jump on story that did a good job of setting the stage for both readers, and the in story public to start looking at this guy different.

I think Aquaman is fairly undeveloped/known that Johns will have an opportunity to create a compelling enough locale and background cast of characters for him. My only concern would be that we wind up with a John Byrne on Namor type situation, although I enjoyed that run so its not a huge concern...

I'm hoping Johns is as dedicated to Aquaman as he has been with both GL and Flash, and less of his hop on and off stuff with Superman. I only say that because I think Johns more so than almost any other current big name writer has shown a real gift for long term vision, so I'd really like to see him do something with Aquaman.

Teen Titans was sold out so I didn't get to check that out, although it sounds like the character changes are almost Gen 13 like, and have left a lot of fans divided in terms of continuity questions and also seeing some old favourites completely re-done.

Not part of the 52, but this weeks American Vampire was yet another strong entry, one that draws some interesting ties between already established characters.

I liked Superman, and have to say that I think Perez's art has really taken a step forward. Perez has always been a strong artist, but because of his 1980's prominence his style has always felt really dated or stuck, until this issue. This was another one that mucked up the established continuity where some stuff (like GL) is still relevant, and other stuff is completely up in the air... I liked the issue, but I still think DC has made a mistep with possibly alienating fans on both sides of the fence (old and new) not knowing what's in and what's out in terms of character histories. To close on a positive note, I am intrigued to see where they go with this new take on Superman's personality.

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Operation Retard
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posted on 10-3-2011 at 03:27 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
perez didn't draw it. he did breakdowns which are just layouts. probably little more than stick figures.

and this guy doesn't hold a candle to actual george perez artwork.

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Flash
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posted on 10-5-2011 at 11:45 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Action comics was another strong offering again, and its becoming increasingly clear that at least on some of the titles they are trying to blaze an entirely different trail with the man of steel.

Not sure if this counts as a spoiler or not as its from the letters/supplemental stuff in the back of issue 2, but it sounds like the Kents are dead as per a comment from Morrison. I always liked the Kents, but more interestingly this also changes a lot of recent modern stuff such as the re-introduction of Brainiac (at least in part) as that story lines big finish was the death of Jonathan Kent. If you want to be a stickler as well, you could also look to things like John's "secret origin" and some elements of the Death of Superman being different....

I can live with no Kents provided they take some time to actually use this and find ways to connect the two and how this makes Superman different as a character.... Like maybe they just died and that's what set Superman loose, so to speak. What would bug me is that if its just thrown out there as a random comment and that they never really take the time to deal with a sizeable story element like the death of ones parents to a young man.

I also grabbed Detective and Swamp things but haven't had a chance to delve into them yet.

As an aside, and perhaps in a DC thread a bit of a faux pas, but I just read the last part of the X-men Schism 5 parter and it was excellent. I liked that while there was the obligatory throw down, it wasn't the fight that split the x-men but rather the comments of a young mutant and some genuine shifting ideals. I broke with my tradition of just scooping up Marvel stuff in trades and was glad I did (even though i'll be going back to trades for them again).

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posted on 10-6-2011 at 12:49 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
If it pleases the court, we could start a Marvel thread, too. I want to hear more about Schism.
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posted on 10-6-2011 at 01:25 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Not sure if this counts as a spoiler or not as its from the letters/supplemental stuff in the back of issue 2, but it sounds like the Kents are dead as per a comment from Morrison.

Morrison confirmed it in an interview, and from what he said in the extras, it sounds like he's going for having Clark finding his way on his own, rather than just always being able to fall back on his parents telling him the right thing to do...which did become a bit of a cliche, and made Superman look like he had no life experience of his own to draw on. It could even be that his powers started developing much later in his life now, and he's not had to grow up being told to be carefull and to hide it as much, hence his rougher nature like with how his landlady was talking about how Superman broke a wifebeaters hips and ribs, and him threatening to break Luthor's neck in this issue. Not that I think he would really do the latter, but just threatening is rougher than Superman used to be portrayed. I like the designs for the new Krypton, by the way. Liked the issue overall, though some of the faces were pretty weird at times, probably due to there being a second guy helping Morales due to the first issue's length.

JLI: A good follow up to the first issue with the team in action, things not going well, and some fun interaction. The villain revealed at the end seems like someone's a fan of Galactus and Darkseid and that whole cosmic alien god thing.

Detective: Pretty much the same as last time, though a little less generic with the villains appearing and being...different from the norm. The Bruce Wayne moments feel a little pointless at the moment and the cliffhanger is a bit predictable in it's outcome next issue.

Batwing: Good. Intrigue's building as Massacre's dialogue makes it seem he's not just doing it for the evil lulz, and actually feels slighted in some way, and we're seeing Batwing's stubborness with his insistence on fighting when he's clearly about to get his ass kicked again.

Stormwatch: Art's much tighter this time, and we're rapidly moving with the team coming together at the same time as there's infighting amongst its leadership, while the threat is developing a bit as we're shown how Stormwatch deals with the media fallout (blame it on an innocent supervillain we cut to the JLI beating up).

Swamp Thing: More details filling in what's up with Holland's role and what the villain is, as well as putting him in the middle of some action and reintroducing an old character. Paquette knocked the art out of the park again.





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Operation Retard
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posted on 10-6-2011 at 03:59 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
flash, i think you need to stop worrying/thinking about how things effect old stories. especially stories that were confined to a single title. yes, some stories remain (in one form or another) and in the case of GL's history and at least morrison's batman run, those comics endure, but for the most part pre-new 52 is just that. it's a new timeline. the old stories are gone. john's entire superman run is gone. supe's dead parents don't effect the brainiac returns storyline. there is no brainiac returns storyline. superman obvious no longer had teen adventures with the legion (which i'm personally upset about since they JUST finally brought that back into continuity). you need to stop reading things and then looking at them from that perspective. it's not a consideration on their part, it shouldn't be on yours.

as far as new books, read JLI #2. good stuff. i too got that galactus/thanos/darkseid vibe from that villain and i'm totally down with it. right up my alley. i enjoy the interaction with the characters. liked the stuff with guy and ice. i feel like JLI is doing what teen titans SHOULD be doing. the stories and team may be new, but the characters still are who they are. so far i'm on bored here.

not doing action #2. thought issue 1 was barely readable. i'll get my superman fix from perez's title. that is until perez leaves. i don't like that giffen is taking over with issue 7. i think giffen works better with a co-writer.

so we are now 5 weeks without a new justice league. did they announce that it's regular schedule would be on a different week or are they already late on a title?

look forward to batman #2 coming out. not only do i plan to read that as issues, but i even plan to pay money for it (digitally, and 4 weeks later when the price drops. i admit, JLI was a torrent read). really enjoyed that first issue.

also, i had read the first stormwatch, but wasn't interested enough to continue. plus i'm pissed that them cuz they stole cory's and my idea to make the villain the moon. so fuck them.

[Edited on 10-6-2011 by Operation Retard]

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posted on 10-6-2011 at 05:45 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Operation Retard
superman obvious no longer had teen adventures with the legion (which i'm personally upset about since they JUST finally brought that back into continuity)

Is that for sure? I've not read any of the Legion stuff in the relaunch(not really a fan) but I heard they said the Legion's history wouldn't be affected.

quote:
so we are now 5 weeks without a new justice league. did they announce that it's regular schedule would be on a different week or are they already late on a title?


Not late. They just put out the first issue earlier because they wanted to lead the relaunch with it, and the next issue is 2 weeks from now, and solicits say november and december's issues are out the same week. Obviously the scheduling this creates is annoying, but maybe they figured the other books released in the interim would tide new readers over?





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posted on 10-6-2011 at 05:55 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I agree to an extent Optard, but I think a lot of that falls on DC to make right with fans as well... As we settle further into the new storylines and continuity my criticisms will be less valid, but we are only two weeks in and DC has left us with a bit of a shattered continuity or mish-mash of what's there and what's not there, so I do think some of my comments are valid complaints...

Like is it only the broad strokes that still exist, or is everything gone? For example, comments in other books would still seem to indicate that Superman did die, but how much of that can we count on?

DC has kind of set a mixed up landscape where both new and old readers are lost... us old readers don't know what's real anymore, and new readers are still jumping in at the mid point of a story.

To be clear, I have been impressed with most of what I've seen so far, and do see a lot of promise going forward, but I think they got us here in just about the worst way possible, and it unfortunately does impact the now because much of the past is still relevant... or isn't, lol. This is where DC editorial needs to really be on the ball in terms of what's in and what's out... I'm not saying they have to tell us everything up front, but they do need have that gameplan, and their track record doesn't inspire confidence.

As to the Justice League schedule my dealer was saying they rushed the first issue to kick off the whole thing, and that the regular spot for the book will be the (i think he said) third week of the month.

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posted on 10-6-2011 at 05:55 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
double post.

[Edited on 10-7-2011 by Flash]

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posted on 10-6-2011 at 05:55 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
double post

[Edited on 10-7-2011 by Flash]

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posted on 10-6-2011 at 05:55 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
edit - double post

[Edited on 10-7-2011 by Flash]

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posted on 10-6-2011 at 08:40 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
stu,

in terms of the legion, i think by their history not being effected, they just mean the series as of the recent relaunch that spun out of johns' stories in superman will remain intact. like how green lantern is just as easily a #70 as it is a #1, where as blue beetle can be nothing but a #1.

but even though they haven't said anything, the legion's history, specifically superman's role in it, has to have changed. i just don't see where it fits in with what we know about this superman. dude's barely got powers here, and it was kal-el as superBOY who rode with the legion. also from issue 1, it's apparent (to me at least) that this superman is not learned on his kryptonian origins, something he would certainly know if he spent time with the legion.

simply i just don't see where they fit.

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posted on 10-6-2011 at 09:20 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Operation Retard
but even though they haven't said anything, the legion's history, specifically superman's role in it, has to have changed. i just don't see where it fits in with what we know about this superman. dude's barely got powers here, and it was kal-el as superBOY who rode with the legion. also from issue 1, it's apparent (to me at least) that this superman is not learned on his kryptonian origins, something he would certainly know if he spent time with the legion.

simply i just don't see where they fit.

Superman's powers so far, including what we see in issue 2 of Action:
-Super strength
-Super speed
-Substantial invulnerability. Not at present day levels, as he actually gets wore down a bit by being strapped to an electric chair, but he recovers and certainly did so from that train hitting him in issue 1.
-Various "visions", including Heat, X-Ray and Microwave
-No flight. His jumping I put down to strength at the moment.
That's all enough for him to have had a lot of Legion Adventures, and the Kryptonian origins doesn't seem to be an issue for me, as the Legion are portrayed as carefull not to tell him too much about his future. I'm sure he at least knows he's an alien, but hasn't learned exactly what kind yet because the government recovered the rocket and when asked if Krypton means anything to him by Luthor, he says the gas from the periodic table.





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posted on 10-7-2011 at 12:53 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
This doesn't quit fit with what yall are talking about, but I never really read comics as a kid and am thinking about starting. I'm planning on getting a subscription to marvel's digital comics cause I always preferred marvel super heroes and they have a big selection. I think the first thing I'm going to read is Ultimate Spiderman. Is that a good choice? Starting with regular spiderman or xmen or whatever seems way to daunting with the 40 years of publishing across multiple titles. Ultimate seems easiest. Comments?





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posted on 10-7-2011 at 03:33 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TownOfDalem
This doesn't quit fit with what yall are talking about, but I never really read comics as a kid and am thinking about starting. I'm planning on getting a subscription to marvel's digital comics cause I always preferred marvel super heroes and they have a big selection. I think the first thing I'm going to read is Ultimate Spiderman. Is that a good choice? Starting with regular spiderman or xmen or whatever seems way to daunting with the 40 years of publishing across multiple titles. Ultimate seems easiest. Comments?


The ultimate stuff also just relaunched with a series of #1 issues across the board so it's kind of a decent time to jump on, although the present ultimate stuff does seem to be spinning out of a handful of big Ultimate-verse events that might need some background to understand;

1) Nick Fury, after a temporary ousting is back in charge of the Ultimates. Political tensions surrounding super powered people are at an all time high.

2) Peter Parker is dead. This has caused several heroes to question what they thought before, and should lead to some interesting allignments going forward. We're just getting to know who the new spiderman is, so that might be a good starting title as its only 2 issues in.

3) Mutants were created by man in the Ultimate universe (Wolverine was the first one), and this is just now becoming public knowledge. After a big event called Ultimatum a large number of the more recognizable heroes were killed, so this should again lead to either massive character changes (ie Reed Richards going bad) and/or several new versions of heroes (its been rumoured a female Dare Devil is in the works).

By and large though its a decent time to jump on as Marvel is running with 4 titles (X-men, Hawkeye, Ultimates, and The all new Spider-man), and most of the backstories are easily accessible enough on their own, or with a short reading list you could easily enough be completely informed.

Suggested to catch up:

Ultimate Origins
Ultimatum
Ultimate fall out - not a must read on its own, but it does kind of set the stage for the new ultimate line up
Ultimate X - this is only like 5 issues, but does a good job of intro' the new x-men
Millars various Ultimates titles - about 5 tp in all, but pretty good stuff for the most part... this will set up both Hawkeye and the Ultimates.

All of which should be available in trade paperbacks (or downloadable).

As for the normal Marvel continuity... I wouldn't sweat the 40 years stuff too much as Marvel has been putting a lot of their efforts into making most of their stuff tailor made for trade paperbacks so a lot of it is pick up and read stuff where the whole backstory is more of a floating continuity. In a lot of cases they've kind of done away with the whole shared continuity between books as well, so while a few big events get tie in series each grouping kind of has their own little corner of the universe... so X-men stuff doesn't have anything to do with the Avengers stuff despite Wolverine being on both teams... Spiderman is on the Fantastic four and the Avengers but you don't really have to know what's going on in any of the other stuff to read spiderman. Marvel has also been "bad" about retconning a lot of stuff as a new writer or event comes up, so say Captain America's current backstory only really goes back about 6 years worth of books (since Ed Brubaker started writing) or Spiderman about the same as they did this whole thing call Brand New Day that basically rebooted the title.

If you really want to be free from continuity you could also look to some of the more adult themed books that are easily picked up in trade paperback formats and will usualy have a fairly definitive run. Some suggestions might be;

Y the last man
American Vampire
Punisher Max
Fables
Kick Ass
... ect.

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posted on 10-12-2011 at 08:06 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Batgirl- An improvement from issue 1. Every individual thing is advanced in someway, as the villain's backstory is revealed, Babs gets to have an encounter with him, there's stuff with the roommate, as well as the introduction of a love interest(actually, it was annoying how much he looks like Dick Grayson, to the point I first thought it WAS him, until it turns out to be someone completely new), and even something coming up with regards to Jim. However while Mirror gets to make more of an impression this time around, his motif seems a bit forced, and some of Babs dialogue makes me cringe. Enough of the emasculating "Little man"/"Big Boy" stuff already. It makes her sound like a douche. Also, the narration on the first page is VERY clunky exposition, explaining what just happened last issue...which to Babs was mere seconds ago. Why can't DC just have Marvel style "Previously" pages?

Batman and Robin- Really liked it again. We focus on Bruce's concern about how he's raising Damian, with some well done interaction between the two, as well as with Bruce talking to Alfred about it. "Nobody" gets some light shed on him, turning out to not be a total retcon but connected to an already established part of Bruce's past(a story/stories I've not personally read, so for all I know, the guy himself IS an old character), and a pretty personal opponent for him.

Batwoman- Fantastic again. The art being great's a given, but the story also zigs where I thought it would zag. The weeping woman case is put on the backburner here as the Religion of Crime rears its head again, while Cameron Chase makes her presence felt, Kate talks to Batman, and her budding relationship with Maggie Sawyer develops. I have to admit I was initially a bit iffy on that last part, as it just seemed like a bit of a case of "pairing the minorities", since they could have just created an original character to be Kate's new love interest. However, I didn't think how it would work into the crimefighting, as it's become a cool twist on the Batman/Gordon type relationship.

Demon Knights- Lots of fun again, with the cast fighting Dinosaurs and exchanging quips left and right.

Green Lantern- Goddamn it. I wanted this to be all about SINESTRO, solo. I wanted Hal out of adventures for at least one arc, but we don't get that. Not that it still isn't good. A lot of subtle things are done here to make the story really about Sinestro even while making him an antagonist. How he views being a Green Lantern, and his momentary surprise at being thanked for doing some good shows the character's still got some potential for redemption. I'm just not sure we need to have Hal around for it.

Mister Terrific- Better than issue 1. No horribly forced bits about race, Terrific has to solve a problem with his intelligence, and there's some cosmic stuff brought in as well as a villain. Unfortunately I read a preview of it beforehand, the pages being from rather late into the book, so when I read it, that made the ending seem rather abrupt. There's also an example of corny as hell real time expository speech of the kind that gets parodied("Transmission overload...tearing my brain apart..."). Also one unfortunate panel looks unavoidably as if a woman has just spontaneously given birth to a bag of oranges...

The Shade- Really liked it. Good art, with an intriguing opening with action, humour and a bit of drama. Shade's written a wee bit more wistfully than I'm used to, but he is meant to be dealing with the image of going a bit soft, so that's intentional. Nothing is said either way with regards to the Knight dynasty in opal, but Mikaal is there, and everything else about Shade's past so far seems intact in the new universe.





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posted on 10-13-2011 at 12:06 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MrJustinB
If it pleases the court, we could start a Marvel thread, too. I want to hear more about Schism.


Please do. Generation Hope 10 which is part of the Schism storyline was one of the best comics I've read in a while.

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posted on 10-15-2011 at 11:15 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
From NYCC:
quote:
Throwing the floor open to audience questions, Johns and Wayne told the first fan to the microphone that the higher-priced "Justice League" book would be getting a backup feature. "Starting in issue #5�Gary Frank and I are going to be doing a second story in every issue called �The Curse of Shazam," said Johns, adding, "Gary and I are going to be relaunching Shazam through the second story."






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posted on 10-17-2011 at 12:48 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I'm not a big Tomasi fan normally, but if he is taking the time to finally explore the whole relationship between Bruce and Damien that several other writers have ignored for the last three years, then I might be inclined to start picking up Batman and Robin.

I'm inclined to agree about this week's Green Lantern as I thought they did start shifting the book too far back to Hal instead of giving Sinestro a chance to shine a bit. In saying that there differeing approaches to the "job", and that John's seems to be doing his best to really demonstrate that Sinestro wasn't just a GL, but perhaps the best of the GL's is making the book a good read. Hopefully we'll continue with this kind of odd couple approach to the story as it unfolds.

The last part of American Vampire survival fo the fittest came out this week, and it was another in a long line of Snyder stories that is proving to be a winner. In saying that outside of padding DC's sales I didn't see any reason why this one was put outside of the main series as it actually seemed to further advance some of the stories within the main canon, so as much as more American Vampire is a good thing, I'm not a big fan of this practice as I see it as one of the bigger faults I have with DC at large where so much (maybe used to... time will tell now) happen in the various mini series and tie in books instead of in the monthly titles themselves.

Not a DC title (and I have mixed feelings about a Marvel exclusive thread.. maybe just make this thread one big comic book thread... after all there's only a handful of us posting in it) but X-Men Regenesis serves as a nice finale to the Schism story and kind of sets the stage for what X-man goes to what team, and how the two could potentially function with one another.

I'm digging the new ultimate Spiderman title, but Bendis seems bent on rolling this one out at a snails pace, so I'm still not sure if this title is going to be a keeper or not after the first arc is done. Ultimate X-men on the other hand feels like they are already building towards something bigger, and are just putting a few pieces in place. It still feels weird reading an X-men book where much of the team is really just the superfriends cast off from Ultimate Spiderman, although this might make things a bit mroe interesting if they sink them up with the Loeb Ultimate X characters, which given the cover of the first issue is a strong likelyhood... although based on last week's ending of Hawkeye #2, it soudns like that group is already heavily tied into Nick Fury's ultimates, so this really might be a whole new approach to the X-men as we knew them.

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posted on 10-17-2011 at 09:23 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
don't make this a mixed thread. if you want to talk marvel start a thread.
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posted on 10-20-2011 at 11:23 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Damn, sounds like it wasn't a great week to skip Batman.
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posted on 10-21-2011 at 02:06 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Snyder's Batman #2 was pretty good this week, and it really makes me want to see DC give him the reins to one of their bigger "Summer event" type limited series (hopefully a ways off as I'd like to see them let the books stand on their own for a bit before throwing more stuff at us) just to see what he could do on a bigger scale and with some other characters as I've been extremely impressed with all of his stuff thus far.

Justice League... I liked it, but this one didn't feel like as big of a deal as the first issue did. I think it will read better as part of the whole story when its done, but none the less did have some pretty decent things about it such as the interactions between the various characters, and getting to see them written a bit differently than we're used to. My only real complaint is that if DC is going to give us the $3.99 price tag on it then we should be getting actual story and not filler art material that's better served as a special feature in the collected trade.

Anyone else still spotting the hooded lady from Flashpoint? I'll have to go through Justice League again for her, but she's in Batman. I've heard speculation that she may ultimately be revealed as Donna Troy because of her standing in the old universe as having ties to Harbringer from Crisis.... That could prove interesting as she's certainly a character with a lot of ties throughout the DCU.

Also, and somewhat related... Picked up the Batman Year One DVD and its very true to the comic, but the whole inner monologue thing that works so well in the print version comes across a bit flat in the movie. I know they were doing a much younger Bruce Wayne as well, but the guy who did him just didn't seem like a great fit for me... his Batman was a bit better as he did seem to try and be gruffer, but I've gotten so used to Kevin Conroy that I may be pre-judging some of the other guys unfairly (although the guy they got to do his voice in New Frontier was interesting). I liked Bryan Cranston as Gordon, and if they have to recast for whatever they are going to do with Batman once Nolan is done with the series I'd nominate him for the live action commish'.

The Catwoman mini that they added to the DVD is about the raciest (in a sexy good way, lol) thing I've seen from DC ... ever? They got Paul Dini to write it which is always a plus and they kind of worked it so that it fits into the Year one story a bit, or at least its the same Catwoman... Eliza Dushku was a good choice.

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MrJustinB
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posted on 11-10-2011 at 03:34 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
A little behind on my comics, but I read the most recent JLI last night, and it's getting better. They did a nice job of introducing the characters a little more. I also dig this world wide threat as a first mission. Seems like it's big enough that an entire team would be needed.

Also read Stormwatch. Unfortunately for my wallet, I'm really starting to get into this idea of a secret superhero force. It will be fun to watch the different personalities interact. Also, something I enjoyed with The Outsiders, this isn't a team that I feel has one guy that could win on his own, so they'll have to work together. I could end up being fun to see how that works out.

I have to admit I wasn't digging this New 52 thing at first, but I've come around. One thing that it has done is taken me from a Capes and Cowls comic book fan to now enjoying Horror based stuff like Animal Man and Swamp Thing, as well as team-ups with lesser known characters like Stormwatch. I probably wouldn't have given them a chance without the interest to check out all the new beginnings that came with the reboot.





"I want to make this shit cool again." - CM Punk

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