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posted on 4-5-2016 at 04:58 PM
quote:Originally posted by CCharger
*Apparently, the boos at Mania and last night at RAW really bothered Reigns and he need to be "counseled" by Vince and others on how to handle the
negative reaction properly......
Bah gawd! That's a human being underneath all that wreckage of a failed storyline, King.
You are a bastard. A daughter-fucking wildling bastard.
williamssl
Steers and Queers
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posted on 4-5-2016 at 05:12 PM
Somehow I envision that Vince/Roman convo going like this:
Don't Mess With Texas
ulsterphil
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posted on 4-5-2016 at 05:19 PM
quote:Originally posted by CCharger
*Apparently, the boos at Mania and last night at RAW really bothered Reigns and he need to be "counseled" by Vince and others on how to handle the
negative reaction properly. Nevertheless, there are no plans for a heel turn and will keep the belt at least until SummerSlam.
If it has seriously taken until now for him to realise exactly how he is viewed by the majority of fans then he is a lot dumber than i expected and
deserves them for being an empty headed assclown.
royberto
And I am AWESOME
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posted on 4-5-2016 at 05:24 PM
quote:Originally posted by CCharger
*Apparently, the boos at Mania and last night at RAW really bothered Reigns and he need to be "counseled" by Vince and others on how to handle the
negative reaction properly. Nevertheless, there are no plans for a heel turn and will keep the belt at least until SummerSlam.
[Edited on 4-5-2016 by CCharger]
Don't buy that one for a minute. He handled the crowd perfectly at Raw. In fact, I dare say that the
character he showed on Raw is the type of character he needs to have. Smug, arrogant and cocky asshole who thinks he is better than everyone else.
[Edited on 4-5-2016 by royberto]
williamssl
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posted on 4-5-2016 at 05:28 PM
I still choose to believe that the "Buck up, little camper" line was delivered from Vince to Roman.
Don't Mess With Texas
janerd75
The Rowdy One
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posted on 4-5-2016 at 05:28 PM
quote:Originally posted by CCharger
*Apparently, the boos at Mania and last night at RAW really bothered Reigns and he need to be "counseled" by Vince and others on how to handle the
negative reaction properly. Nevertheless, there are no plans for a heel turn and will keep the belt at least until SummerSlam.
Fuck it, Dude. Let's go bowling.
punkerhardcore
American Dream
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posted on 4-5-2016 at 05:38 PM
quote:Originally posted by CCharger
*Apparently, the boos at Mania and last night at RAW really bothered Reigns and he need to be "counseled" by Vince and others on how to handle the
negative reaction properly. Nevertheless, there are no plans for a heel turn and will keep the belt at least until SummerSlam.
"Don't worry Roman... we're gonna book you in a match against that Styles guy. You're tall and handsome, nobody is going to cheer
him over you."
Is everyone mad here?
Of course they are, and you are too... otherwise, you wouldn't have come here.
Paddlefoot
Rocco Rock of Jabroni
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posted on 4-5-2016 at 05:41 PM
The only way out for him now is to be caught by the cops in a car by the side of the road doing lines with Hacksaw Jim and Sabu. Shhhh! I'm
trying to get fired!
You are a bastard. A daughter-fucking wildling bastard.
CCharger
The Rowdy One
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posted on 4-5-2016 at 05:57 PM
quote:Originally posted by royberto
In fact, I dare say that the character he showed on Raw is the type of character he needs to have. Smug, arrogant and cocky asshole who thinks he is
better than everyone else.
[Edited on 4-5-2016 by royberto]
A heel, in other words. What we have all been calling for him to be for almost two years?
When it Reigns, it bores.
Paddlefoot
Rocco Rock of Jabroni
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posted on 4-5-2016 at 06:10 PM
Rick Martel and Tyler Breeze both do it way better.
You are a bastard. A daughter-fucking wildling bastard.
royberto
And I am AWESOME
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posted on 4-5-2016 at 06:40 PM
quote:Originally posted by CCharger
quote:Originally posted by royberto
In fact, I dare say that the character he showed on Raw is the type of character he needs to have. Smug, arrogant and cocky asshole who thinks he is
better than everyone else.
[Edited on 4-5-2016 by royberto]
A heel, in other words. What we have all been calling for him to be for almost two years?
Actually, a tweener. There are those that cheer him.
Have him treat heels the same way as he treats faces as Stone Cold used to. Let the fans that like him cheer him, cheer him. Lets the fans that hate
him boo him. Don't try to make him either or.
CCharger
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posted on 4-5-2016 at 07:00 PM
"Smug, arrogant and cocky asshole" is not a tweener. That's a heel.
What he needs to be is a stoic, "lone wolf", asskicker.
When it Reigns, it bores.
royberto
And I am AWESOME
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posted on 4-5-2016 at 08:02 PM
quote:Originally posted by CCharger
"Smug, arrogant and cocky asshole" is not a tweener. That's a heel.
What he needs to be is a stoic, "lone wolf", asskicker.
It can be a tweener. He just has to stay away from blatant heel tactics. Take on
heels and faces. Treat them the exact same way. Last night was a great start to what it can be.
CCharger
The Rowdy One
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posted on 4-5-2016 at 08:10 PM
quote:Originally posted by royberto
quote:Originally posted by CCharger
"Smug, arrogant and cocky asshole" is not a tweener. That's a heel.
What he needs to be is a stoic, "lone wolf", asskicker.
It can be a tweener. He just has to stay away from blatant heel tactics. Take on
heels and faces. Treat them the exact same way. Last night was a great start to what it can be.
Blatant heel tactics like being a smug, arrogant, cocky asshole?
When it Reigns, it bores.
Columbo
Showstopper
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posted on 4-5-2016 at 08:26 PM
quote:Originally posted by CCharger
"Smug, arrogant and cocky asshole" is not a tweener. That's a heel.
What he needs to be is a stoic, "lone wolf", asskicker.
I found a picture of Berto watching wrasstlemania...
"The North Cafeteria, named after Admiral William North, is located in the western portion of East Hall, gateway to the western half of North Hall,
which is named, not after William North, but for its position above the South Wall. It is the most contested and confusing battlefield on Greendale�s
campus, next to the English Memorial Spanish Center, named after English Memorial, a Portuguese sailor that discovered Greendale while looking for a
fountain that cured syphilis."
Foxcalibur
Fella
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posted on 4-5-2016 at 08:37 PM
Soooooo, I've never been convinced "tweener" is an actual thing. Like, it's a meta thing. A term to describe a phase between the two
real alignments, "face" (someone the fans love) and "heel" (someone the fans hate.)
Lemme start over: the real arbiters of who is and is not the "hero" of a wrestling story are the fans. Primarily the live fans in attendance, but
also the fan-base worldwide. The days of designated "faces" and "heels" have pretty much been over since Steve Austin became a thing. Just giving
a wrestler a "nice guy who doesn't cheat" gimmick doesn't work, especially if it doesn't suit his personality. The fans will
decide who they root for, even if that character is an obvious bastard by any reasonable standard.
Now, you can make the fans' guy a good guy. This cab involve a thing called character development. I popped my brains out when Stone Cold
rescued poor little Stephanie from the Ministry or when the Rock finally stuck up for Mankind. It can also involve giving a nice-guy gimmick to an
actual nice guy. Apollo Crews radiates niceness. So does Finn Balor when he's just being himself. In good stories, people LOVE virtuous heroes.
I say again, Captain America is the most popular avenger.
But the first step is to understand, "the fans decide the heroes and villains." You let them tell you who they like and don't, and you book
accordingly. The fans either love a guy, hate him, or don't care.
So the only thing a Tweener can really be is someone who gets a mixed reaction. And a mixed reaction is usually a sign of failed booking -- the
audience doesn't know how to treat this person. John Cena's the best example. Otherwise, a character's BEHAVIOR has nothing to do
with Tweenerness.
Brock Lesnar has never changed his behavior since his return a few years back. He's a big bad bullying conqueror-beast. He likes to hurt other
humans and is uniquely equipped to do so. His biggest "babyface" moment was turning the arena inside out and F-5ing various noncombatants. Our
hero...? Yes. Because the crowd lost their minds cheering for it and the fans worldwide were in love. From that moment on, Brock Lesnar
should've been the goddamn Superman of the WWE (ugh) universe. But he's not a "tweener," he's a face. He gets a positive
reaction. Tweeners aren't really a thing. An anti-hero is just a face. A designated hero is just a heel.
What I'm saying in my roundabout Foxylicious way, is that Charger is right REGARDLESS of how Roman Reigns behaves: He's not a Tweener,
he's a heel. The fans largely want him to die in a fire. Sadly, I don't believe any amount of stoic, lone-wolf badassery will earn him
less boos, as he is the designated scapegoat for all the IWC and hardcore fans' frustrations.
Thus, making him a "cocky, arrogant asshole" is posilutely, absotively the correct step. The sooner you make his behavior suit his reaction, the
sooner the fans are allowed and encouraged to ENJOY their reactions, and thus enjoy his presence. He's going to be a rage-sink anyway. He may as
well lean into it with his considerable presence. He can have the GIMMICK of a tweener. I like the "Not a good guy, not a bad guy, just THE guy"
slogan quite a bit. But in narrative terms, there is no such thing as a tweener.
Tweener. Tweener. Fun word.
NXT: It's like WWE, but fun!
bigfatgoalie
The Man
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posted on 4-5-2016 at 08:42 PM
quote:Originally posted by CCharger
quote:Originally posted by royberto
quote:Originally posted by CCharger
"Smug, arrogant and cocky asshole" is not a tweener. That's a heel.
What he needs to be is a stoic, "lone wolf", asskicker.
It can be a tweener. He just has to stay away from blatant heel tactics. Take on
heels and faces. Treat them the exact same way. Last night was a great start to what it can be.
Blatant heel tactics like being a smug, arrogant, cocky asshole?
Maybe he should think he's hot? Know he's sexy. Have the moves...that drives the girls wild? So yes, much like HBK a face can be smug,
arrogant, and a cocky asshole. Hell, there was a great Crashing The Boards about the
faces being jerks.
I get that royberto is not tackling the subject well...but faces that use heel tactics is not a new concept.
CCharger
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posted on 4-5-2016 at 08:47 PM
Foxy's right.
By royberto's measure, Seth Rollins is a tweener. He's a smug, arrogant, cocky asshole.
But he clearly is not. He gets booed - even by fans who think he's the tits in the ring.
Can a smug, arrogant, cocky asshole be cheered? Sure. HBK like you said. Flair is another. Even the Rock. But that doesn't make them babyfaces
necessarily. Brock is a "heel", but a lot of what he does gets cheered. Does that make him a babyface? No.
Nevertheless, Reigns doesn't have the charisma to even come close to pulling off an HBK-Flair-Rock mashup.
When it Reigns, it bores.
Foxcalibur
Fella
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posted on 4-5-2016 at 09:04 PM
I don't think Reigns will ever be like HBK/Flair/Rock. He's not a flashy, flamboyant guy. He doesn't have Big-C Charisma the way
those guys do. Reigns as a heel is the arrogant blue-chipper. The gifted athlete who knows how good he is and doesn't give a shit if you like
him or not. He's Marshawn Lynch. He shouldn't have to say much, and should just let his body-language do the talking. Which, thus far (as
in, after one day!) he has been.
I'm a big fan of Roman Rayguns. I wish they'd let him cut loose a bit more in the ring like he did with Daniel Bryan. But he's got a
great look, fun moveset, and wonderful presence and intensity. I think there's a great babyface within Roman Reigns. But they've booked
him into a corner, and he needs to judo his way out of it. He does that by turning his hated "chosen one" status into a positive.
NXT: It's like WWE, but fun!
Count Zero
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posted on 4-5-2016 at 09:54 PM
I thought we had a Reigns Talk thread so we could debate his value there? Or did we gif-spew the crap out of it and ruin the sandbox to the extent
that nobody wants to play in it?
CCharger
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posted on 4-5-2016 at 09:57 PM
quote:Originally posted by Count Zero
I thought we had a Reigns Talk thread so we could debate his value there? Or did we gif-spew the crap out of it and ruin the sandbox to the extent
that nobody wants to play in it?
Yes.
When it Reigns, it bores.
Count Zero
Man of a Thousand Holds
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posted on 4-5-2016 at 10:04 PM
quote:Originally posted by CCharger
quote:Originally posted by Count Zero
I thought we had a Reigns Talk thread so we could debate his value there? Or did we gif-spew the crap out of it and ruin the sandbox to the extent
that nobody wants to play in it?
Yes.
?
[Edited on 4-5-2016 by Count Zero]
Originally posted by williamssl
"That hasn't stopped us from doing this shit before!"
"Checkmate, sir. Checkmate"
Foxcalibur
Fella
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posted on 4-5-2016 at 10:11 PM
Oh, I saw that. I just figured the current debate about Reigns's tweenerness or otherwise was happening here, so I kept my thoughts here. I have
other things to say in the Reigns-specific thread.
NXT: It's like WWE, but fun!
Count Zero
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posted on 4-5-2016 at 10:13 PM
I just figured I'd try to be "helpful" and point people in that direction so we don't end up with Rumor Crap, Volume 3 sooner instead of
later. Carry on however you wish, gentlebOOardies.
Originally posted by williamssl
"That hasn't stopped us from doing this shit before!"
"Checkmate, sir. Checkmate"
Matte
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posted on 4-5-2016 at 10:22 PM
quote:Originally posted by royberto
quote:Originally posted by CCharger
quote:Originally posted by royberto
In fact, I dare say that the character he showed on Raw is the type of character he needs to have. Smug, arrogant and cocky asshole who thinks he is
better than everyone else.
[Edited on 4-5-2016 by royberto]
A heel, in other words. What we have all been calling for him to be for almost two years?
Actually, a tweener. There are those that cheer him.
Have him treat heels the same way as he treats faces as Stone Cold used to. Let the fans that like him cheer him, cheer him. Lets the fans that hate
him boo him. Don't try to make him either or.
So like Kevin Owens but with less walk-outs.
"I'm a professional. I know exactly what I'm doing." - Jeff Hardy
