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Author: Subject: Brand split officially coming back
Cherokee Jack
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posted on 5-25-2016 at 02:17 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Brand split officially coming back

http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/wwe-smackdown-live-usa-1201782569/

Beginning July 19, Smackdown will begin airing live on Tuesdays, rather than being taped and aired Thursday. It will retain its current two-hour 8-10 eastern time slot. Sometime before then there will be a draft to determine the rosters for each show. The shows are "expected to have separate casts, plots and writing teams."

"the company is expected to create strong points of differentiation between �Smackdown� and USA�s other live program, �Monday Night Raw""

So start the speculation: who gets shipped over to SD? What top guys will WWE pull off the flagship? Will this brand split be more successful or last longer than the first one?

EDIT: One more relevant question: what will this do to TNA when they're running 2-3 month old taped shows against live WWE every week? Do they change nights again, or will we find out just how low of ratings POP is willing to take?

[Edited on 5-25-2016 by Cherokee Jack]





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CCharger
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posted on 5-25-2016 at 02:26 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
From WWE.com:

"This bold move will have major ramifications for all of WWE and exemplify the New Era, as both Raw and SmackDown will each feature their own unique rosters and rivalries following an imminent Superstar draft."

ETA:

I was never a fan of the brand split nor of having two champs, especially later on when the talent pool thinned. I would get on board of having the IC title exclusive to RAW and the US title exclusive to Smackdown and have the World Champ float between both brands.

Kind of like the old days when each NWA territory had their own champion, but the NWA World Champion would make special appearances and matches in each one.

[Edited on 5-25-2016 by CCharger]

[Edited on 5-25-2016 by CCharger]





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posted on 5-25-2016 at 04:45 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Please put Orton on SD as I am less likely to watch each week.

I assume we will also have the tag belts float.





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posted on 5-25-2016 at 05:18 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Women too.

This is great news. It makes for much better TV (especially for SD which has been less interesting or appealing for a long time than NXT has been), gives the benchwarmers something to do, probably quells a lot of locker room dissent from those with nothing to do, and brings back what was a rather good rivalry at time between shows. Rather amazed that they got rid of the brand split to begin with as I came to see it as one of the most interesting late-Attitude/early-PG era things they'd ever done.





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posted on 5-25-2016 at 05:32 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
I would get on board of having the IC title exclusive to RAW and the US title exclusive to Smackdown and have the World Champ float between both brands.

Kind of like the old days when each NWA territory had their own champion, but the NWA World Champion would make special appearances and matches in each one.



This. Absolutely this, along with the women's champion and tag teams champions as Pad and Tex noted.

I'm kind of ok with two tag team titles but only if there is a deep tag team roster. I don't ever want to go back to the days where the Deuce and Domino and the Basham Brothers are winning championships.

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posted on 5-25-2016 at 05:35 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I would be quite happy if they took Owens, Cesaro, Miz and Zayn on Smackdown by themselves.

Just pure good rasslin with well worded promos. Thats my kind of show.

[Edited on 5-25-2016 by ulsterphil]

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posted on 5-25-2016 at 06:09 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger

I was never a fan of the brand split nor of having two champs, especially later on when the talent pool thinned. I would get on board of having the IC title exclusive to RAW and the US title exclusive to Smackdown and have the World Champ float between both brands.

[Edited on 5-25-2016 by CCharger]


Agreed; I do not want to see two World Champs or two sets of tag champs at all. I love the idea of the IC & US being exclusive to one brand with the men's and women's World Champ plus the tag champs pulling double duty.

So I'm guessing this is how the Steph & Shane dynamic is resolved? Seems like this would have been announced through a storyline but I guess USA jumped the gun a bit. I just hope they do a real draft with a podium & picks & all, & not the randomized/spin of the wheel shit they did the last couple years of the draft.

If it were up to me I think I'd lay out the top of each roster with:

Raw: Cena, Rollins, Rusev, Cesaro, AJ

Smackdown: Reigns, Ambrose, KO, Zayn, Miz





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posted on 5-25-2016 at 07:04 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Grindfather
If it were up to me I think I'd lay out the top of each roster with:

Raw: Cena, Rollins, Rusev, Cesaro, AJ

Smackdown: Reigns, Ambrose, KO, Zayn, Miz
I can get behind this.

Looks like Smackdown will finally enter my DVR list.

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posted on 5-25-2016 at 07:58 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
1 World, Woman's and Tag Champ.

US and IC are brand exclusive just like everyone said. Just don't split the damn World Championship again.

And now it's time to MOCK DRAFT!!!

Assuming Reigns is the champ and out.

Shane Raw: #1 Lesnar
Steph SD: #2 HHH
SD: #3 Rollins
Raw: #4 Cena





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posted on 5-25-2016 at 08:13 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Rumors seem to be there will be 2 "World" champs, IC & US each on 1 brand, and all the women on just 1 brand(presumably Raw since 3 hours vs. 2 hours)

I'd like to see it done as a floating WWE champ & Women's champ as people say, along with IC on one brand and US on the other. For the tag titles though, I'd keep the tag champs on one brand but then on the other brand create a 6-man tag team titles.

For "PPVs", given they're doing 12+ a year now with Network specials like Roadblock, I'd like to see them do 15 yearly events. Have 5 dual shows as well as 5 Raw events and 5 SD events so there can be 1 Raw and 1 SD event between each of the new "Big 5".

A calendar like this:
January: New Year's Revolution--Raw show

January: Royal Rumble--Big 5 dual show

February: Fastlane--SD show

March: Roadblock--Raw show

March/April: Wrestlemania--Big 5 dual show, Money in the Bank match moved back to being on the WM card

April/May: Payback--SD show

May: Extreme Rules--Raw show

June: Night of Champions--Big 5 dual show, all championships defended and finals of dual brand King of the Ring tournament

June/July: Elimination Chamber/Some new gimmick match-themed PPV--SD show

July: Battleground--Raw show

August: Summerslam--Big 5 dual show

September: Fall Brawl/No Mercy--SD show

October: Hell in a Cell--Raw show

November: Survivor Series--Big 5 dual show

December: TLC--SD show


[Edited on 5-25-2016 by jefft221]

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williamssl
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posted on 5-25-2016 at 09:22 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Various thoughts in no particular order:

Boooo! re: the recent releases
This makes me hate what happened with Sandow and Rhodes even more, as the split is something that (1) create more space (and need) for roster depth and (2) allow an elevation of the midcard (or if they go with 2 world champs then have 2x the opportunity of today).

The Cody one burns even more as it feels like there should have been an opportunity minimally to make him/his character a little more prominent, and creatively allow for a character change out of Stardust. Especially since this brand split was known about (it's not like it suddenly came up in the past few days).


Wish Raw went to back 2 hours
3 hours of time with half the roster. The half full side says they better fill that time now that they have focus for just that show (separate creative team for SD). The half empty says we still end up with the 3 minute women's match and the squashes and the lengthy backstage segments and what not such that 3 hours still feels like a chore. I get from a $$$ perspective they're not going to do that unless viewership significantly declines and USA sees a better opportunity for ad $, but I would challenge the Raw-specific creative team to think about using the 3 hours better each week.


2-4 consecutive nights of wrestling is....a lot
I get that the only thing that is happening is SD moving from Thurs to Tues, so 2 days earlier, no big whoop, right? My challenge is....on most given weeks, this is 2 (or 3 if you watch NXT when it airs) nights of back to back wrestling, including 5 hours Mon/Tue. Throw in the PPV weeks and you're at 8 hours Sun-Tues (and more if add NXT). I know I'm not going to be able to do that, so I'll likely be forced to make a Raw vs SD tradeoff each week...which is better than outright not watching SD because of it being taped....but it's still a lot


Hopefully the Wrestler's Get a Break
Right now the WWE general schedule is:
Raw on Monday
SD taping on Tuesday
Wednesday is off
1 show Thurs
1 show Fri
2 shows Sat and Sun (on non-PPV weeks)
Worst case as part of the normal rhythm, wrestlers are active 6 nights/week. That's a lot on the body and probably something that contributes to injuries.

The split could perpetuate the as-is, with the Raw folks doing
Raw Monday
House shows Tues, Thu, Fri, Sat, Sun
SD would be same, just make Mon a house show and Tues their live TV event.
What I'd hope to see, for the wrestler's sake, is Mon or Tue being an off day depending on which brand they're on, thereby reducing # of weekly appearance max by 1 (unless you're the floater champion).


End dump





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posted on 5-26-2016 at 12:31 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
With the Network being a thing now this could really change the brand split... the alternating months thing was sometimes too long between stories, or it in some ways minimized what could have been some bigger feuds by making the distinction between PPV feuds, and TV resolved feuds.... Then we had the split cards with two announce teams... well, that was a mess sometimes.

Some thoughts:
*I think I'd let your PPV's breath a bit and go to a 6 week rotation, so that you have 3 weeks always in between each PPV for each brand... keep them from cluttering up one another too much.

*Roman should go to Smackdown... I'd rather have Dean on Raw with Cena, as I think the WWE would be more inclined to let him have the spotlight when JC drops down to a B feud... Roman is still a project, so a guy like Orton or Sheamus can second him without entirely eclipsing him.

*I'd take a radically different approach from one show to the next.... you should know what show you are watching just from how they talk about it, and how matches are structured.... take a chance.

*I wouldn't do any cross over stuff... maybe a champ of champs, but there's enough there for two tag teams if they give it some time.

*Yeah.... kinda baffling that some guys got cut... this could have been the Brooklyn Brawlers spot.

*Phase out some of the shittier PPV's... develop something brand specific. The other day we were talking about MITV versus KOTR... make each one as a means of earning a title shot brand specific (IE KOTR is a SD thing, MITB is a Raw thing).

*No cross overs with the exception of Survivor Series, and that should be focused around inter-promotion competition. I towed with the idea of making Summer Slam the SD Wrestlemania, but that's probably going a bit too far. So maybe some cross over for Summer Slam, Wrestlemania, and the Rumble only.

*Go with different match types for each show.... War Games (although that would work better for survivor series) for one show, HITC for another... I don't know get creative.

*Freshen up the colours and sets for both shows.... really make this a new era.

*Keep the women to Raw.... if you could develop enough of a luchadore roster, or lightweights then I'd run that on SD.

*No more black people on Raw* (just seeing if you're still paying attention, and/or secretly Hulk Hogan)

*All Orton matches will be exclusively aired in 3D with smell-o-vision for Dom's benefit.

*One show should feature wrestlers having to run that gauntlet thing from American Gladiators while Vince McMahon shoots that tennis ball cannon at them.... instead of tennis balls it will be replaced by brass rings.

*The other should feature wrestlers making entrances on motocross dirt bikes jumping through flaming hoops to get to the ring.

*More midgets on each brand.... there should be a 1 to 1 ratio of midget to normal sized people, with each midget assuming a gimmick of someone on the opposing brand.... this will eliminate the need for endless what you missed recaps featuring Smackdown's Kevin Owens taking on Randy Orton.... instead we'd get interpretive little people matches on Raw featuring Kevin Lowens versus Randy Shorton... God that was terrible.... groan.....

*Make NXT mean a bit more by treating them like an actual free agent pool... maybe the odd NXT could feature cameo's from Steph' or Shane talking to some rookie trying to sign them up, or even just scouting.

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posted on 5-26-2016 at 02:29 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Not excited about this, for as great as the Smackdown Six was(V1 and V2), Smackdown was pure garbage for a lot of years. Remember World Heavyweight Champion Khali? World Heavyweight Champion Jack Swagger? A thin roster makes for a much worse show than an overcrowded one.

Yeah today's roster is great but so was the one in 2002 and a year later we had the Reign of Terror on RAW and SD went to hell the second Lesnar left. I think they've learned from the previous experiment and this one will be a softer version.

Anyway, my prediction is Reigns remains the man on RAW and Cena helms SD. They need to start strong with the huge investment they're making on SD and Cena is the proven draw while RAW is a stable ship and can be helmed by the newer top guy.

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posted on 5-26-2016 at 02:38 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I think they could quite easily do two women's matches on Raw and one on SD per week, so there's no reason not to do it on both even if the ladies are exempt from the draft. The five-to-ten minutes per match that they seem to average in duration wouldn't be a big bite out of either show. I've probably been wrong about "promos and backstage shenanigans" stealing too much time from in-ring action. There is actually less of it now than there used to be. The twenty-minute promos that used to open RAW are certainly nowhere near as frequent as they used to be. What seems to be taking up more time than it used to is more commercials, and the periodic one-minute or so long segments where they let the announcers babble as the ring is set up for something. I don't mind the Miz or Jericho in-ring interviews but they really only need to do one per show. I'd be fairly confident that a lot more fans would rather see a Sasha Banks match in the time it takes for another nasty Jericho interview that follows the exact same formula since he shoved HBK's face through the ridiculously expensive Jeritron 3000 all those years ago.





You know, everyone says it's not supposed to make sense, like that's the whole point, dude. And I'm just saying, you know, that's like an excuse for lazy storytelling. Just don't sell me shite and tell me it's gold, all right? I might be stoned, but I'm not high. You know what I mean?
- Cassidy from Preacher, commenting on The Big Lebowski and/or professional wrestling

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posted on 5-26-2016 at 03:08 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Cautiously excited, but not optimistic.



This is one of those times when I'd be very happy to 'be wrong' about something.

ETFixSmileyFace. The BBCode and some of the images don't match up any more... to get that tinfoil hat guy, i had to use the tag for the "Duh" face.. there are two of the same "Argh!!" emote, and so on.

[Edited on 5-26-2016 by Count Zero]

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posted on 5-26-2016 at 03:19 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Flash
*No more black people on Raw* (just seeing if you're still paying attention, and/or secretly Hulk Hogan)



OKKK!

So how will this effect the revolving door of part timers? Brock, Taker, Cripple H, Rock and I also heard (god willing) Orton may comeback on a limited schedule! Do these guys get drafted? Or do they just flit in and out as required?





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posted on 5-26-2016 at 04:59 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Well black people aren't allowed in the title picture....they don't even let them qualify for Money in the Bank matches :-D. You think with all the flack WWE gets for being racist....they would remedy this kind of thing. Any of the three of New Day in the real world would certainly get at least a shot.


Figures I was being funny....and as soon as I hit submit...I remembered Crews..... sigh

[Edited on 5-26-2016 by Nobledictator1278]


And so I don't start two posts back to back....I hated the last brand split....I will be upset if they don't keep 1 floating champion. You can't have two world champs it just feels weak.

[Edited on 5-26-2016 by Nobledictator1278]

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posted on 5-26-2016 at 05:17 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I think one thing that could work is making SD a middleground between RAW and NXT. More or less the same roster as RAW but most of the big guns stay on RAW with maybe only Cena as the new Undertaker of SD.

You could have Cena win the IC Title and resume his company wide challenge daring the new guys to step up. Being John's belt, it becomes the de facto Smackdown Championship, always below the World Title but still a worthy prize. Bonafide guys like Rollins and Reigns never compete for it, but guys on the cusp of making it to that level like Owens, Styles, Zayn put on clinics for it. Eventually these guys move on to RAW as the next rising stars gear up to fight for it.

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posted on 5-26-2016 at 07:29 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Hopefully the success of NXT will show them a real brand split can work, the key is no, or very minimal, crossovers.

As for fantasy drafts - seperate Zayn and Owens, only for them to end up in the same arena at PPV's and fuck up each others matches..

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posted on 5-26-2016 at 01:25 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
On the topic of making the shows feel different, I'd like to see every Smackdown open like SNMEs used to open. ~15-30 second promos from each side of the top 2~3 matches of the night.
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posted on 5-26-2016 at 05:41 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Above; if you could capture some of that SNME retro feel for Smackdown, that'd be awesome.

A couple of thoughts, which have probably been repeated here:

- IC on one show, US champ on the other
- Womens division on one show, tag in the other; don't dilute the talent

- World champ can appear on either. Make his appearances important and his defenses even more important. Remember back in the old days, when you DIDN'T see the champ on TV every week, let alone twice? It's OK to ignore him once in a while if your secondary titles are must-see.

- Don't make it about authority figures on either show
- Longer matches mean you don't have to worry about a smaller talent pool on each show
- Don't confuse longer matches with longer sports-entertainment segments
- The occasional squash match with local talent wouldn't hurt, either

And is anyone else going to do their own mock Raw/Smackdown draft?

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posted on 5-26-2016 at 06:43 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Sure, I'll play. I remember writing years ago in an old "WWE to revive WCW?"-type rumor thread how I'd love to see a legitimate brand split draft. No worked selections, no collaboration between the sides, just the writing/management teams for each show working as completely separate entities, drafting who they want for their show based on whatever criteria they see fit, be it wrestling ability, crowd reactions, potential merchandise sales, etc.

So let's see how this might go. Note: I'm intentionally excluding all tag teams and women (since if, as has been suggested, you put each entire division on one show, drafting them becomes pointless). Also, I'm just guessing which show would get the first pick, so this could easily flip.

Round One
Smackdown: John Cena.
Might not be the most popular pick around these parts, but dude undeniably sells lots of tickets and truckloads of merch. He's also a pretty decent wrestler. Age is a concern, but for now he gives you everything.
Raw: Seth Rollins. Can wrestle, can talk, can play a face or a heel and be great at it.

Round Two
Smackdown: Kevin Owens.
Debated him or Ambrose for this spot, ended up going KO. As good of a pure heel as they have in WWE right now, also sells a lot of merch, and someone who breaks the conventional WWE wisdom of what a world-class wrestler is supposed to look like (in a good way).
Raw: Dean Ambrose. And Raw swoops in to take Ambrose. Crazy over with crowds, can work all kinds of matches with any opponent, does the wildman lunatic schtick better than anyone in a long time (without being over the top campy about it).

Round Three
Smackdown: Cesaro.
I don't need to sell anyone here on how great this guy is. SD writers will see this as a steal at this spot, and be salivating to finally give this guy the spotlight he's been deserving of for years.
Raw: Roman Reigns. "But he's the champ, he gets to be on both shows..." Yep. And once he loses the title, he'll need a show to go back to. Raw drafts the rights to Roman when he's no longer champion. This will allow him to renew his unfinished rivalry with Rollins, and oh look Dean's here too. The Raw writers will be biding their time until they can do a huge-money Shield reunion angle.

Less explanation going forward as I'm pressed for time...

Round Four
Smackdown: AJ Styles.
Again, all-world talent, lots of fresh matchups.
Raw: Finn Balor Assuming he'll have debuted by now, if not call it a "future rights" pick.

Round Five
Smackdown: Sami Zayn.
Keep the Owens rivalry alive forever.
Raw: Randy Orton. Whatever you think of the guy, he's seen as a big star and a made-man main eventer in a company that has sadly few of them.

Two more ideas: declare ahead of time that since the IC and US championships will be going to separate shows, the men holding those two belts will have a match on draft night, with the winner choosing what show he goes to. If it's still Miz and Rusev, I think Miz is a better fit for Raw, Rusev for Smackdown.

Also, Brock Lesnar should be undraftable. Have Heyman cut a promo pointing out a clause in his contract that in the event of any future brand extension, Lesnar can and will not be confined to one show, Lesnar can and will go where he wants. Because if the guy's only doing one or two short runs per year, let's keep the options open. It'll also be fun to consider the specter of a Brock hanging over both shows, with the potential to burst in and create chaos at any time.

All I got for now. Who else?





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posted on 5-26-2016 at 07:24 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cherokee Jack
Round Three
Raw: Roman Reigns. "But he's the champ, he gets to be on both shows..." Yep. And once he loses the title, he'll need a show to go back to. Raw drafts the rights to Roman when he's no longer champion. This will allow him to renew his unfinished rivalry with Rollins, and oh look Dean's here too. The Raw writers will be biding their time until they can do a huge-money Shield reunion angle.




I thought, or would expect, in the event of a title change, that whoever lost would take the place of the person that beat them on said person's roster.


Ambrose is on Raw. Ambrose beats Rollins. Ambrose becomes the floating champion. Rollins becomes part of Raw.





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posted on 5-26-2016 at 07:56 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
That is indeed the way it was done with the original brand split for the six months or so between when it started and when they introduced the second world title. But that should change. If these are to be truly run as two separate, independent-of-each other entities, they need to have their rosters locked down. The writers of whichever show (in this example, Raw) should be able to craft their own stories and long-term planning without the worry that one of their top guys will suddenly disappear.

It'd also be interesting to see exactly how that would affect Roman's draft stock (and the stock of others, for that matter): how long do you think he'll be champ? Do you think he'll have a long title run in the future? How much stock will you put in a guy you may not have exclusively for a while/will be able to use even if he's not yours?





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posted on 5-26-2016 at 08:00 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SpiNNeR72
Hopefully the success of NXT will show them a real brand split can work, the key is no, or very minimal, crossovers.




100% this. Which is Why SmackDown! will need a NEW World Champion...and not just to sell more replicas of the Big Gold Belt. Having a champ be able to jump shows is dumb unless EVERY title match will be a 3way with the champ vs both a RAW and SmackDown! star.


Here's my wishlist...

1 - Have Shane remake SmackDown! in to something he long ago wanted...WCW Nitro. Complete with PG-ERA approved T&A; in the Nitro Girls.

2 - Keep the Women and Tag divisions on RAW. That will help fill up 3 hours.

3 - Bring back the cruiser weight title on Nitro. That would greatly help some of the smaller talent (Neville, Breeze, Slater, etc) as well as a lot of Indy guys. And would make the matches on Nitro feel different.

4 - New sets for both shows.

5 - No trades / switching shows without being off TV for 30 days.

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