theflammablemanimal
Man of a Thousand Holds 
Posts 1743
Registered 9-2-2008 Member Is Offline Mood: missing his ava
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| posted on 4-21-2010 at 04:55 PM |
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I have no problem with Swagger losing since it was the freaking Undertaker. Yes, the match probably shouldn't have happened but they were
desperate and think they can make Swagger look good by at least hanging with Taker. And really, as mentioned above, his reign is going to live or die
by what happens Sunday. However, I do have 2 major problems with the match:
1) It sucked. What the hell are you people talking about? You liked a match that consisted of Swagger and Taker lying on their back for 5 minutes in a
"devastating" leg hold? And The Rick or whoever commented on Taker's balls of steel is giving him a little too much credit. Yeah, he did old
school and the apron leg drop, but other than that he was flat on his back or just throwing punches for the whole match.
2) They should have given some reason why Taker would come back and answer Swagger's challenge. It could have been as simple as Swagger throwing
another shot at HBK in his promo and then the announcers saying that Taker was upset Swagger insulted someone Taker respects. Instead, you have Taker
appearing out of nowhere for no reason and now probably disappearing again.
Also, a lot of people have said "They did the best they could with the ME." Really? They had a Raw Main Eventer, 4 SD Main Eventers, and a jobber,
yet somehow Punk ended up doing the job to HHH. You had Gallows right there to take the pin. I understand why HHH couldn't take any offense, but
why does he have to get the pin and why does it have to be over Punk? At least if 1 of the SD guys had gotten the pin, it would have moved storylines
forward but this accomplished nothing.
Also, Macgruber sucks balls like almost all SNL stuff, especially everything with Will Forte. Not that I needed any convincing to not see this
horrible move.
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blackdragon
The Great One 
Posts 3443
Registered 11-9-2003 Member Is Offline Mood: Awesome
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| posted on 4-21-2010 at 06:38 PM |
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Lucky, you and kafkonia seem to actually be agreeing on the intial point you made about "this was not your typical guest host" week.
Where as you both went into great detail to illuminate what sucked/didn't suck about it, in the end, you both essentially said "because
MacGruber is 'real' in the WWE universe, he is different than every other host who is just themselves."
A ho fucks everybody. A bitch fucks everybody but you.
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DKBroiler
SpeciASSl CUMedian 
Posts 391
Registered 1-25-2008 Location Exit 8 off Rt 42, New Jersey Member Is Offline Mood: Skip Baylessish
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| posted on 4-21-2010 at 08:27 PM |
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Kind of a mixed bag on Raw this week which was probably to be expected from the travel issues.
Things I Didn't Like
1) I never like it when actors show up as characters instead of being who they are. It compounds the problem when Ryan Phillippe showed up as himself
but McGruber was still McGruber.
2) I little too much McGruber. And that fucking song won't get out of my head. He was pretty funny for a while though. I just think it was a
bit too much of it.
Things I Liked
1) The HHH promo at the beginning with the SES.
2) Everything Jericho.
Things I Loved
1) With many apologies to Lucky Lopez, I love the Swagger push. It actually makes sense and probably legitimizes my ranking system. Yes he is 1-2 as
champ, and 1-3 lately, however his losses have been to my #1 ranked guy (Undertaker), and twice to my #4 ranked guy (Orton). He beat Jericho and Edge
(ranked 7 and 8) but only in surprising fashion, to keep with the theme of my rankings. Since he has already surpassed Kane and (clearly) Khali a win
over either of those guys would have done nothing. I do know that Lucky specifically has had an issue with the World Champion not being pushed as the
number 1 guy in the company (understandably so- TNA does a very good job of this by the way) but after spending 6 months jobbing to Santino and the
rest of the roster it would have been unrealistic to have him beat these Hall of Famers decisively at this point. But spending 15 minutes going toe
to toe with the baddest wrestler on the planet certainly helps legitimize him.
I grant that it is a wierd and bassackwards way to push a guy, but I like this push more and more each show. I'm also throwing this down
now...
Swagger beats Orton this weekend. There is the big win that he needs.
2) R-Truth getting blown up may have been the greatest wrestlecrap moment in 5 years.
Overall Score: 3.1
Not a bad effort but McGruber was a bit much, and TNA was way more memorable in it's "HIGH" spots.
----------
I wanted to specifially respond to a few things that Devineman said.
"This is the second Raw I've complained about, in my whole memory. The first was the Springer one, for the same types of reasons as this."
You are a very good poster and one of my favorite guys to read on here so I know that you are being truthful with that you said. I too hated the
Springer episode, however I think that McGruber wasn't necessarily good or bad, you either liked him or didn't. Most of the 3+'s
seemed to like him. I think it's pretty obvious that you didn't. My guess is the McGruber taint on the show probably hurt everything
else for you.
"Taker/HHH writes itself as a "you retired my best friend" thing, and with HHH off to do his movie duties, it isn't going to hurt
anyone."
You're right. It would work... next year at WrestleMania. Undertaker vs HHH is absolutely not being given away on free TV. I understand that
they have done it before, but other then UT vs Cena it's about the biggest money maker that the WWE has to offer. I simply think that making
that the main event of a random Raw in April is probably a bit short sighted.
"Swagger over, well, anyone really would have been nice. His match was normal big man vs big man, slow paced, crap. If you're doing this, do it
against somebody that you are going to beat."
Agree to disagree. I actually liked the match however I'm alone on the island of big man work rate. Also, I just don't think a win over
anyone not in my top 10 or so would do anything for Swagger since his is already the World Champ. Beating Kane would mean nothing to him. Losing to
the Undertaker without getting squashed sends a big signal that he is just about ready to really be a dominate champion... just not quite yet.
"Again, I'll reiterate. My point is that that took me ten seconds to think of, and you can 'WWE logic' justify it. It's one
of a million possible directions that they could have gone in."
That's the problem with thinking of matches in 10 seconds. It's not at all about what makes Raw better. It's about what generates
the most pay per view buys. Undertaker vs HHH would be a big pay day to the WWE. They know this. Giving it away on Raw leads us down the road to
Cena vs Orton all over again. In theory those 2 guys should be main eventing WrestleMania's against each other (and have previously) but after
doing it over, and over, and over has caused it to be an anti-drawing, channel changing non entity.
"The thing that absolutely infuriates me, is that a group of people sat around in the WWE offices and said "Nah, we'll put on four matches in
total, and give our ME 10 minutes then spend 45 minutes on MacGruber". They actually made a choice to put that show out."
And they probably got paid well by the McGruber people, and didn't sacrifice future earnings. Oh, and we still watched so technically it was a
win on 3 fronts for the WWE.
I am not trying to pick a fight. Like I said earlier I really like most of your posts. I just didn't really agree with it being all that awful
or not thought through.
[Edited on 4-21-2010 by DKBroiler]
The world no longer moves when Chuck Norris does push-ups because Tim Tebow pushes back.
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LuckyLopez
Reeks of WCW 
Posts 11911
Registered 2-13-2003 Member Is OnlineMood:
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| posted on 4-21-2010 at 08:37 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by blackdragon
Lucky, you and kafkonia seem to actually be agreeing on the intial point you made about "this was not your typical guest host" week.
Where as you both went into great detail to illuminate what sucked/didn't suck about it, in the end, you both essentially said "because
MacGruber is 'real' in the WWE universe, he is different than every other host who is just themselves."
Yeah, I kind of misread kafkonia's post a bit and thus did sort of miss the point. My bad, kafkonia.
But out of curiosity, if we're now ok with MacGruber and fantastic explosion moments then does that mean we can retroactively erase the
criticism about some of the most infamous moments in wrestling history such as RoboCop saving Sting and Chuckie taunting Rick Steiner. Because as
best as I can tell they're as real and make as much sense as MacGruber and his bombs that blow up everything but your shoe but still leave you
capable of wrestling on Tuesday.
WWE is really just a guest host winning the World Title away before it 100% REEKS OF THE DYING DAYS OF WCW!
[Edited on 4-21-2010 by LuckyLopez]
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southermagu
Rated R Superstar 
Posts 370
Registered 1-11-2006 Location Louisville Member Is Offline Mood: Charlie Wilson
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| posted on 4-21-2010 at 08:45 PM |
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Yes, but if the guest host is The Rock then everything will magically be reset into awesome.
On the other hand, what is David Arquette up to these days?
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Chris Is Good517
Posts 8152
Registered 1-10-2002 Location Little Rock, AR Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 4-21-2010 at 09:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by LuckyLopez
WWE is really just a guest host winning the World Title away before it 100% REEKS OF THE DYING DAYS OF WCW!
They rehired Russo and Bischoff?
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LuckyLopez
Reeks of WCW
Posts 11911
Registered 2-13-2003 Member Is OnlineMood:
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| posted on 4-21-2010 at 09:23 PM |
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Do they need them?
- One of their top faces is a raging psychopath who abused his partners until they might have turned on him but he did first, in a story that can only
make sense with shades of gray.
- Celebrity appearances and wrestling is the norm.
- Fantasy elements are relatively common occurrences with no internal continuity to them.
- The title belts are booked like after thoughts.
- Wrestlers are commonly being hot shot up the card and then booked inconsistently.
- The established main eventers, many of them over 40, are the only consistently strong wrestlers.
- Weird blurring of the lines when fictional characters from other shows/films are brought in and treated as real.
Is there really much of any lauded trick Russo had that WWE hasn't used in the last couple of years?
[Edited on 4-21-2010 by LuckyLopez]
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DevilSoprano
The Rowdy One 
Posts 2840
Registered 11-16-2002 Member Is OnlineMood:
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| posted on 4-21-2010 at 09:31 PM |
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I think the thing that will really reek of the dying days will be when Vince decides to strip every belt and have a brand new show called WWE Presents
Titles as a new PPV.
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Chris Is Good517
Posts 8152
Registered 1-10-2002 Location Little Rock, AR Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 4-21-2010 at 09:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by LuckyLopez
Is there really much of any lauded trick Russo had that WWE hasn't used in the last couple of years?
Whacky mismatched partners who hate each other?
Pregnant lesbians?
Other than that, the bases seem to be well-covered.
In all seriousness, I do get what you're saying. I don't entirely disagree with you. WWE is in really sad shape right now and I have no
idea when/if they're going to get it together. "They'll quit doing the guest host concept when they land Rock" is slim hope since a) it
could be months before Rock actually has the time to screw with this mess and b) that rumor may not even have any basis in reality.
Right now I really get the feeling that they're just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. And it isn't helping that once every
4-6 weeks they fall ass-backwards into putting on a pretty good show that gives me hope that they're about to turn the corner and get this back
on track. Then 2 or 3 weeks later there's shows like this one. Which, apparently, you and I are in the minority of hating. So they keep dangling
that carrot just close enough to keep me running for it, I guess. And I'm not trying to take a cheap shot at TNA, but as of right now
there's more appeal to me in WWE's organized disappointments than there is in TNA's trainwreck of some really great stuff in a sea
of horrible crap.
It's probably lose-lose either way for me right now, or maybe I've just outgrown this stuff altogether and still haven't come to
terms with it yet.
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williamssl
Steers and Queers 
Posts 2654
Registered 1-11-2004 Location Hippieville Member Is Offline Mood: Fuck USC
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| posted on 4-21-2010 at 09:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DevilSoprano
I think the thing that will really reek of the dying days will be when Vince decides to strip every belt and have a brand new show called WWE Presents
Titles as a new PPV.
This is scary because it is so incredibly possible. I can see Night of Champions becoming this....
Remember Dev's quote because there is going to be one of those "I called it" moments sometime in the future. The question is not if. The
questions is only...when.
Don't Mess With Texas
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DevilSoprano
The Rowdy One
Posts 2840
Registered 11-16-2002 Member Is OnlineMood:
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| posted on 4-21-2010 at 10:10 PM |
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And I'm actually going to say something positive about WWE right now, so be prepared. I think we're being wrong with our judgments of WWE
when the truth is Raw is what truly and horribly sucks. NXT is okay for what it is and Smackdown is normally right there for show of the week. It
shows that WWE has the potential to put out at least a solid 90 minutes each week. True, it's on Fridays and no one watches, but it is possible.
I have no idea why when the word Raw is mentioned to WWE it means "Let's put on the absolute worst show ever" but that's what seems to
happen. Because a Smackdown show on Monday should be good, but instead we got a Raw show with Smackdown and it was an abortion.
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LuckyLopez
Reeks of WCW
Posts 11911
Registered 2-13-2003 Member Is OnlineMood:
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| posted on 4-21-2010 at 10:24 PM |
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Yeah, despite all my hate its almost entirely directed at RAW. I enjoy/am ok with Smackdown and NXT. I can poke holes in a lot of parts of them but
they're just the usual "I care enough to want to see this improved" sort of thing, but my "I need to just stop watching this crap" opinion
of RAW,
And I really wasn't trying to make any kind of point with the "REEKS OF WCW" thing, besides my general opinion that "REEKS OF WCW" is
another silly term because 99% of WCW's "dying days" mistakes are mistakes every promoter has made even during "good" periods. But it did
seem amusing to me that a lot of the stuff WWE is doing now that I and others have a problem with and others defend are many of the same things that
WCW did that were almost universally panned and to this day are looked back on as some of the most embarrassing things in wrestling history.
Seriously. If this was 2001 WCW "MacGruber" would be right up there with the worst of the worst. It hit half a dozen bullseyes. Treatment of a
fictional character as real, internal lack of consistent logic, fantasy sequence, desperate desire for mainstream credibility by clinging to a D-List
celebrity, sacrificing contracted wrestlers and a lot of TV time to that celebrity. Again, I'm not saying you have to hate it any more than you
have to hate Chuckie or RoboCop. And there's nothing wrong with being amused by one and not the other. But at their core they're the
same thing and the fact that its not only being defended but also celebrated is basically evidence of one of two things.
1) A dramatic change in the business over the last 10 years and the mindset of its audience.
2) A very transparent double standard.
Vote in the 12 Pack!
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MayhemNX
And I am AWESOME 
Posts 197
Registered 11-18-2006 Location Web City Member Is Offline Mood: Optimal
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| posted on 4-22-2010 at 12:31 AM |
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So, quick side question..did Macgruber murder R-Truth? Because that's what it looked like...
Quantum Fetish Mechanics: The act of thinking up a new type of fetish causes that fetish to exist. Someone probably has a website dedicated to it.
Schrodinger's cat is not only neither dead nor alive, but might also be sexually aroused by peanut butter and elbows.
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DKBroiler
SpeciASSl CUMedian
Posts 391
Registered 1-25-2008 Location Exit 8 off Rt 42, New Jersey Member Is Offline Mood: Skip Baylessish
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| posted on 4-22-2010 at 01:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MayhemNX
So, quick side question..did Macgruber murder R-Truth? Because that's what it looked like...
I hope so?
The world no longer moves when Chuck Norris does push-ups because Tim Tebow pushes back.
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southermagu
Rated R Superstar
Posts 370
Registered 1-11-2006 Location Louisville Member Is Offline Mood: Charlie Wilson
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| posted on 4-22-2010 at 02:21 PM |
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Secondary side question: What's so awful about R-Truth, besides the ridiculous pandering entrance?
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DKBroiler
SpeciASSl CUMedian
Posts 391
Registered 1-25-2008 Location Exit 8 off Rt 42, New Jersey Member Is Offline Mood: Skip Baylessish
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| posted on 4-22-2010 at 04:12 PM |
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Pretty much just the "ridiculous pandering entrance". He speaks well and is a pretty good worker. As a wrestler or general WWE employee he is
actually pretty good. He just annoys the crap out of me, and it has nothing to do with rap music which I generally enjoy.
I also have stated many times that I root against anyone that 9 year olds root for.
The world no longer moves when Chuck Norris does push-ups because Tim Tebow pushes back.
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theflammablemanimal
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1743
Registered 9-2-2008 Member Is Offline Mood: missing his ava
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| posted on 4-22-2010 at 04:14 PM |
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Well, he is Delicious.
Plus, most of his offense is based on the idea that moves are more effective if he hits his opponent and then spins a lot. Oh, and did I mention his
finisher is a flying forearm?
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DKBroiler
SpeciASSl CUMedian
Posts 391
Registered 1-25-2008 Location Exit 8 off Rt 42, New Jersey Member Is Offline Mood: Skip Baylessish
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| posted on 4-22-2010 at 04:26 PM |
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I will state for the record that the "Delicious Pretty Ricky" phase was about the only time the I have ever liked R-Truth.
But then again, I've been singing the praises of Tarver over on NXT so maybe I'm not the best judge.
The world no longer moves when Chuck Norris does push-ups because Tim Tebow pushes back.
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ThePunisher
The Rowdy One 
Posts 2864
Registered 4-19-2003 Location Asheville, NC Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 4-22-2010 at 05:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris Is Good517
...or maybe I've just outgrown this stuff altogether and still haven't come to terms with it yet.
Shit, Chris! I'm glad Mrs. Pun doesn't read OO, because she'd tell me, "See! He admits it!"
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southermagu
Rated R Superstar
Posts 370
Registered 1-11-2006 Location Louisville Member Is Offline Mood: Charlie Wilson
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| posted on 4-22-2010 at 06:00 PM |
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Wrestling Physics 101 clearly states that the more revolutions you do is directly proportional to the amount of damage a move does.
However, I can understand you're confusion with regards to revolutions incurred after the initial contact is made.
That, my friend, is Theoretical Quantum Wrestling Physics. In this school of thought, revolutions that occur after contact can (under certain
circumstances) actually transmit their energy just milliseconds back in time.
It is also theorized, however, that the amount of effort required to move that energy backwards through time significantly drains the effectiveness of
the maneuver.
This would make the user susceptible to jobbing regularly and also being blown up.
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theflammablemanimal
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1743
Registered 9-2-2008 Member Is Offline Mood: missing his ava
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| posted on 4-22-2010 at 06:20 PM |
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Hmmm, that would explain how he became only the 2nd person in WWE to lose to a sleeperhold in the last 5 years.
Actually, I think I can pretty confidently expand that to "2nd person in the whole world."
(And I would have said 10 years but I have a vague memory of HHH putting Jeff Hardy to sleep)
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DrBoz
Showstopper
Posts 882
Registered 1-2-2006 Location Indiana Member Is Offline Mood: Rouge
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| posted on 4-23-2010 at 05:25 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by theflammablemanimal
Well, he is Delicious.
Plus, most of his offense is based on the idea that moves are more effective if he hits his opponent and then spins a lot. Oh, and did I mention his
finisher is a flying spinny forearm?
Fixed.
Was it just me, or did I see R-Truth running away after he "blew up?" Nice camera work!
I'll be participating in a 5K Walk/Ride on May 1st supporting the Northeast Indiana AIDS Task Force. Want to sponsor a fellow OOer as well as a
good cause? Donations can be made here. Thanks!
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DKBroiler
SpeciASSl CUMedian
Posts 391
Registered 1-25-2008 Location Exit 8 off Rt 42, New Jersey Member Is Offline Mood: Skip Baylessish
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| posted on 4-23-2010 at 03:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by southermagu
Wrestling Physics 101 clearly states that the more revolutions you do is directly proportional to the amount of damage a move does.
However, I can understand you're confusion with regards to revolutions incurred after the initial contact is made.
That, my friend, is Theoretical Quantum Wrestling Physics. In this school of thought, revolutions that occur after contact can (under certain
circumstances) actually transmit their energy just milliseconds back in time.
It is also theorized, however, that the amount of effort required to move that energy backwards through time significantly drains the effectiveness of
the maneuver.
This would make the user susceptible to jobbing regularly and also being blown up.
This was my single favorite post in months. I have no idea what award it should be given, but for the love of god please give him one.
How about The 2010 Online Onslaught Achievement in Science Award. I wish someone would do a college thesis on Theoretical Quantum Wrestling Physics.
Well played sir. Well played.
The world no longer moves when Chuck Norris does push-ups because Tim Tebow pushes back.
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angstboy
DaddyMonkeyLives.com
Posts 4743
Registered 12-11-2002 Location Baltimore, MD Member Is Offline Mood: Jokeriffic!
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| posted on 4-23-2010 at 03:40 PM |
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More wrestling physics:
http://www.onlineonslaught.com/OOForums/viewthread.php?tid=7413
Corner Kicked - a comic where Cory and Ziggy do inappropriate stuff to each other.
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DKBroiler
SpeciASSl CUMedian
Posts 391
Registered 1-25-2008 Location Exit 8 off Rt 42, New Jersey Member Is Offline Mood: Skip Baylessish
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| posted on 4-26-2010 at 05:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
With many apologies to Lucky Lopez, I love the Swagger push. It actually makes sense and probably legitimizes my ranking system. Yes he is 1-2 as
champ, and 1-3 lately, however his losses have been to my #1 ranked guy (Undertaker), and twice to my #4 ranked guy (Orton). He beat Jericho and Edge
(ranked 7 and 8) but only in surprising fashion, to keep with the theme of my rankings. Since he has already surpassed Kane and (clearly) Khali a win
over either of those guys would have done nothing. I do know that Lucky specifically has had an issue with the World Champion not being pushed as the
number 1 guy in the company (understandably so- TNA does a very good job of this by the way) but after spending 6 months jobbing to Santino and the
rest of the roster it would have been unrealistic to have him beat these Hall of Famers decisively at this point. But spending 15 minutes going toe
to toe with the baddest wrestler on the planet certainly helps legitimize him.
I grant that it is a wierd and bassackwards way to push a guy, but I like this push more and more each show. I'm also throwing this down
now...
Swagger beats Orton this weekend. There is the big win that he needs.
Damn right!
The world no longer moves when Chuck Norris does push-ups because Tim Tebow pushes back.
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