Paddlefoot
Rocco Rock of Jabroni 
Posts 7071
Registered 1-19-2008 Location Stupid Idiot Section Member Is OnlineMood: G'bye SmokinJoe
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| posted on 4-4-2017 at 06:43 PM |
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What they should have done last night on RAW - Roman comes out wearing Taker's hat and coat. Takes them off, dumps them in a garbage can on the
stage, pours gasoline on them and sets it all on fire. As the waves of sheer hatred crash over him, after letting the crowd vent for several long
minutes, he says "it's my yard now" and walks away. Heel cred established in one overwhelming unforgettable blow and the turn that everyone,
except Vince and StepHHH, wants to see is cemented in history. And next week Reigns comes out to a match as one of the cockiest and most sneering
mofo's of all time.
You know, everyone says it's not supposed to make sense, like that's the whole point, dude. And I'm just saying, you know,
that's like an excuse for lazy storytelling. Just don't sell me shite and tell me it's gold, all right? I might be stoned, but
I'm not high. You know what I mean?
- Cassidy from Preacher, commenting on The Big Lebowski and/or professional wrestling
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CCharger
The Great One 
Posts 3381
Registered 7-21-2010 Member Is Offline Mood: Obtuse
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| posted on 4-4-2017 at 07:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Count Zero
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
We can complain all we want about Roman Reigns, but the fact is that Vince and Co. are solidly behind him and things aren't going to change any
time soon:
�People can look at Roman Reigns and say, �The failed attempt that is Roman Reigns,� but Roman Reigns sells tickets,� said Levesque. �Roman Reigns
gets one of the loudest reactions every night, whether that reaction is a boo or whether that reaction is a cheer. The fans who say, �I don�t
understand why they don�t turn Roman Reigns heel!� Isn�t he already?�If you believe what you believe, and you�re saying, �How can they not turn him
heel? There is 70 percent of the crowd booing him out of the building!� If that�s your belief, then isn�t he already the biggest heel we have? If 70
percent of that crowd is booing him, then he�s a heel. We�re just presenting him to you in a different way that makes you hate him.�
https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2017/03/27/wwe-triple-h-paul-levesque-nxt-cruiserweight-brands
So.... Is HHH saying that "X-Pac Heat" is a
good thing? Because we're not 'playing along' and booing the bad guy. Many people genuinely want him to go the fuck away. I get
what he means in theory, about any reaction being a good one. In practice, however, do his merchandise sales correlate with the backlash? If they
want him to be Cena2.0 (or Hogan3.0), they're going to need him to move t-shirts and foam fingers at some point. 
Reigns is in a unique position (and maybe I'm alone here) in that I don't hate him personally nor do I hate his character per se. Instead,
I resent how his character is being presented. I resent how the WWE thinks we are all too dumb to see how they are force-feeding us this guy.
Remember, back during the SHIELD days, we loved Roman Reigns. It was when they started pandering to us (Remember him winning the Slammy for Superstar
of the year in 2014 despite being injured half that time?) that things began to change.
I don't hate Roman Reigns. I hate that WWE's paternalistic attitude about him. It's not even X-Pac heat. The heat isn't on the
performer. It's on the company.
[Edited on 4-4-2017 by CCharger]
"She was warned. She was given an explanation. Nevertheless, she persisted."
"The powers of the president to protect our country are very substantial and will not be questioned."
--- Stephen Miller, Trump senior White House advisor, Feb. 12, 2017
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salmonjunkie
Best There Is Was or Ever Will Be 
Posts 11708
Registered 6-25-2002 Location Sunny Seattle, WA Member Is Offline Mood: Authoritized
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| posted on 4-4-2017 at 07:07 PM |
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I actually think that what Roman did last night was perfect. I liked it more than I would've liked a full on over-the-top disrespecting the
Undertaker heel turn.
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williamssl
Steers and Queers
Posts 7565
Registered 1-11-2004 Location Hippieville Member Is Offline Mood: Fuck USC
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| posted on 4-4-2017 at 08:34 PM |
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re: merchandise
Reigns is #1 in sales for people not named Cena.
Some of you are secretly buying his merch. It's OK. You can admit it. This is a kind, tolerant, and forgiving group here.
Don't Mess With Texas
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janerd75
The Great One 
Posts 3454
Registered 1-28-2013 Member Is Offline Mood: 3 Naan Band
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| posted on 4-4-2017 at 08:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by williamssl
This is a kind, tolerant, and forgiving group here.
...Bippity Boo and Skibbity Bop or whatever the fuck. - punkerhardcornette
BRAY WYATT'S SPOOKY DOOKY VARIETY HOUR - Illy P.
I expect a company that's basically a cluster of jock shitheads to act like a place that's run by a cluster of jock shitheads. - P. Foot,
Esq.
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GodEatGod
Man of a Thousand Holds 
Posts 1188
Registered 1-14-2004 Location Monroe, LA Member Is Offline Mood: Weird
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| posted on 4-4-2017 at 08:54 PM |
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The only thing WWE's going to care about in regard to Roman's booking is the bottom line. He sells a ton of merch and people happily pay
their money to buy a ticket and sit in the arena and chant "Fuck you, Roman" and boo him out of the building. You can say it's "X-Pac heat",
but as long as you buy the network and come to the show and let your kids buy the Roman t-shirt while you roll your eyes, they don't really give
a fuck what kind of heat it is.
This wasn't a crazy great RAW, but it had some nice moments (my favorite actually being Roman's kind of fuck you mic drop). I imagine
everyone involved with WWE, both backstage and in the ring, is exhausted as hell, so I'm not sure even they know where they're going from
here right now. So that's fine.
"It is an impressively arrogant move to conclude that just because you don't like something, it is empirically not good. I don't like
Chinese food, but I don't write articles trying to prove it doesn't exist." - Tina Fey
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CCharger
The Great One
Posts 3381
Registered 7-21-2010 Member Is Offline Mood: Obtuse
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| posted on 4-4-2017 at 09:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
The only thing WWE's going to care about in regard to Roman's booking is the bottom line.
Yup, this is spot-fucking-on. Vince gives zero fucks if you chant "FUCK YOU, ROMAN" or write angry screeds about how he doesn't deserve the
push he's getting. (I'll include myself in that group.)
All he cares about is this:
http://www.allwrestlingnews.com/2017/03/30/roman-reigns-now-top-merchandise-seller-wwe/
Same with Cena. Vince doesn't care about what the crowd does when Cena or Roman are in the ring. They care about what the crowd does before the
show at the T-shirt stand.
[Edited on 4-4-2017 by CCharger]
"She was warned. She was given an explanation. Nevertheless, she persisted."
"The powers of the president to protect our country are very substantial and will not be questioned."
--- Stephen Miller, Trump senior White House advisor, Feb. 12, 2017
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bigfatgoalie
The Man
Posts 6484
Registered 1-16-2002 Location Stratusphere Member Is Offline Mood: Stratusfied
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| posted on 4-4-2017 at 09:16 PM |
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I said this after Benoit (yup...that fucking guy) won the title...it is up to everyone to support who they actually like with actual $$$. If you think
AJ is awesome...buy a fucking AJ shirt. Buy an AJ action figure. Buy an AJ soccer mom wig. Whatever they have that you like...buy it.
New Day (and their incredibly long leash on the mic) is proof that Vince will push (and push, and push) an act that is constantly bringing in extra
money.
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CCharger
The Great One
Posts 3381
Registered 7-21-2010 Member Is Offline Mood: Obtuse
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| posted on 4-4-2017 at 09:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bigfatgoalie
I said this after Benoit (yup...that fucking guy) won the title...it is up to everyone to support who they actually like with actual $$$. If you think
AJ is awesome...buy a fucking AJ shirt. Buy an AJ action figure. Buy an AJ soccer mom wig. Whatever they have that you like...buy it.
New Day (and their incredibly long leash on the mic) is proof that Vince will push (and push, and push) an act that is constantly bringing in extra
money.
QFT
Case in point: the year Punk held the WWE title for 400+ days? He was #1 in merch sales.
The year Daniel Bryan won Wrestlemania and finally received his main event push? #2 in merch sales behind Cena.
You know why AJ Styles has received his unexpectedly strong push since debuting? He is in the top 5 in merch sales.
Want to know why Ambrose (an IWC favorite) is jobbing out on the Mania pre-show? His merch sales are very slow.
Crowd reactions matter very little to Vince it seems. As BFG stated, fans talk with their wallets.
"She was warned. She was given an explanation. Nevertheless, she persisted."
"The powers of the president to protect our country are very substantial and will not be questioned."
--- Stephen Miller, Trump senior White House advisor, Feb. 12, 2017
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Count Zero
Man of a Thousand Holds 
Posts 1994
Registered 1-29-2013 Location Canada East Member Is Offline Mood: SuperHeroInTraining
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| posted on 4-4-2017 at 10:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
The only thing WWE's going to care about in regard to Roman's booking is the bottom line. He sells a ton of merch and people happily pay
their money to buy a ticket and sit in the arena and chant "Fuck you, Roman" and boo him out of the building. You can say it's "X-Pac heat",
but as long as you buy the network and come to the show and let your kids buy the Roman t-shirt while you roll your eyes, they don't really give
a fuck what kind of heat it is.
And this is why I think it would've been better for the Marks After Mania to just do NOTHING when he
walked in. Don't leave, don't boo. Just don't give a shit. If 'reaction' is what moves the Roman Empire, don't
give him any reaction-juice for HHH to make his point with. This whole "we're booking him as a new and unique heel-type!" is either
rationalization, or they're working the smarks even harder than before. "You can boo him, and that's what we want you to do! Look at
how you're playing our game!"
Just say Meh. 
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CCharger
The Great One
Posts 3381
Registered 7-21-2010 Member Is Offline Mood: Obtuse
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| posted on 4-4-2017 at 10:19 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Count Zero
Just say Meh.
And don't buy his fucking T-shirt.
"She was warned. She was given an explanation. Nevertheless, she persisted."
"The powers of the president to protect our country are very substantial and will not be questioned."
--- Stephen Miller, Trump senior White House advisor, Feb. 12, 2017
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First 9
The Rowdy One
Posts 2302
Registered 1-22-2013 Member Is Offline Mood: Doing the Emma Dance
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| posted on 4-4-2017 at 10:26 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
QFT
Case in point: the year Punk held the WWE title for 400+ days? He was #1 in merch sales.
The year Daniel Bryan won Wrestlemania and finally received his main event push? #2 in merch sales behind Cena.
You know why AJ Styles has received his unexpectedly strong push since debuting? He is in the top 5 in merch sales.
Want to know why Ambrose (an IWC favorite) is jobbing out on the Mania pre-show? His merch sales are very slow.
Crowd reactions matter very little to Vince it seems. As BFG stated, fans talk with their wallets.
There's also cases where they outright sabotage certain people aswell. Ryder became a top 5 merch seller without air time and WWE miked it for
two months before cutting his balls and making him a joke. Punk debuted and quickly got over, resulting in only the WWECW guy who moved merch besides
RVD. His reward was to get jobbed out to Hardcore Holly.
But yeah, best we can do is support our favorites and hope it's enough to move past booking bias.
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royberto
Showstopper
Posts 576
Registered 2-27-2014 Member Is Offline Mood: Troll Detector
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| posted on 4-4-2017 at 10:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by salmonjunkie
quote:
Originally posted by G. Jonah Jameson
Huh. The segment setting up that match must not have been very memorable, for some reason.
They did a backstage thing with Angle that started with Sami doing his "I over-explain everything" schtick and then Jinder coming in complaining
about being robbed from winning the Battle Royal because of Gronk. Angle then set up the match.
They had such a close up of Jinder that my TV
now tests positive for steroids.
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Planet Starbucks
Creepy Little Bastard
Posts 82
Registered 1-28-2013 Location England Member Is Offline Mood: Medicated
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| posted on 4-4-2017 at 11:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
Remember, back during the SHIELD days, we loved Roman Reigns. It was when they started pandering to us (Remember him winning the Slammy for Superstar
of the year in 2014 despite being injured half that time?) that things began to change.
I don't hate Roman Reigns. I hate that WWE's paternalistic attitude about him. It's not even X-Pac heat. The heat isn't on the
performer. It's on the company.
I keep seeing people saying this about how everyone loved Roman when he was part of the SHIELD. When exactly? I remember him getting a pop when he
stepped forward against HHH just after they turned face, but other than that my main recollection is people saying that he was the greenest and
probably weakest of the three but did have a good look. Yeah, most fans liked how the SHIELD were presented and booked as a unit but I really think
the 'everyone loved Roman back then' argument is a gross exaggeration.
Also, it seems to be necessary now for anyone who doesn't like him to have to justify themselves by saying 'it's not Roman himself,
it's the booking' or 'it's fan frustration at the current product'. Not saying those aren't factors but I'm
also sure that many fans, myself included, think that he's simply not good enough to be anywhere near the position he's in. Three WM main
events in a row as a 'face' and booed out of the building in all of them. Shit's getting really fucking old and it has probably only
just started if he stays healthy.
Basically, whilst I respect everyone else's opinion, I don't buy the argument that the heat isn't really on Roman himself. Last
night the crowd were literally chanting 'go away'. To me that was far more telling than any of the F bombs that were dropped, and it if
that isn't X-Pac heat then I honestly don't know what is.
quote:
Originally posted by janerd75
If you want a vision of the WWE's future, imagine an overpushed Samoan stamping on a human face - forever. George Orwell, 2016 (sequel to 1984)
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salmonjunkie
Best There Is Was or Ever Will Be
Posts 11708
Registered 6-25-2002 Location Sunny Seattle, WA Member Is Offline Mood: Authoritized
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| posted on 4-4-2017 at 11:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bigfatgoalie
I said this after Benoit (yup...that fucking guy) won the title...it is up to everyone to support who they actually like with actual $$$.
It also helps to make decent t-shirts. I don't care how much I loved Benoit as the champion, there was no fucking way I was buying a wearing a
shirt that just said "Toothless Aggression" on it.
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CCharger
The Great One
Posts 3381
Registered 7-21-2010 Member Is Offline Mood: Obtuse
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| posted on 4-4-2017 at 11:52 PM |
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It also helps if you have MORE merchandise available for sale. This list is a year old, but I still think it is accurate.
Pieces of Merchandise Available on WWE Shop and Live Events:
John Cena - 78
Roman Reigns - 52
Dean Ambrose - 50
Brock Lesnar - 36
New Day - 36
Kevin Owens - 32
Randy Orton - 30
Undertaker - 29
Finn Balor - 28
The Rock - 21
Seth Rollins - 21
ETA:
The Bellas had (have) a combined 45 piece of merch. 19 for Brie, 18 for Nikki and 8 for them as a tag team.
[Edited on 4-4-2017 by CCharger]
"She was warned. She was given an explanation. Nevertheless, she persisted."
"The powers of the president to protect our country are very substantial and will not be questioned."
--- Stephen Miller, Trump senior White House advisor, Feb. 12, 2017
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First 9
The Rowdy One
Posts 2302
Registered 1-22-2013 Member Is Offline Mood: Doing the Emma Dance
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| posted on 4-5-2017 at 12:01 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Planet Starbucks
I keep seeing people saying this about how everyone loved Roman when he was part of the SHIELD. When exactly? I remember him getting a pop when he
stepped forward against HHH just after they turned face, but other than that my main recollection is people saying that he was the greenest and
probably weakest of the three but did have a good look. Yeah, most fans liked how the SHIELD were presented and booked as a unit but I really think
the 'everyone loved Roman back then' argument is a gross exaggeration.
Also, it seems to be necessary now for anyone who doesn't like him to have to justify themselves by saying 'it's not Roman himself,
it's the booking' or 'it's fan frustration at the current product'. Not saying those aren't factors but I'm
also sure that many fans, myself included, think that he's simply not good enough to be anywhere near the position he's in. Three WM main
events in a row as a 'face' and booed out of the building in all of them. Shit's getting really fucking old and it has probably only
just started if he stays healthy.
Basically, whilst I respect everyone else's opinion, I don't buy the argument that the heat isn't really on Roman himself. Last
night the crowd were literally chanting 'go away'. To me that was far more telling than any of the F bombs that were dropped, and it if
that isn't X-Pac heat then I honestly don't know what is.
He was over as hell in his first few months going solo. He'd regularly get the biggets pop of the night. The hate came full blast when he
returned from injury and won the Royal Rumble.
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G. Jonah Jameson
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1111
Registered 12-28-2010 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 4-5-2017 at 12:50 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by First 9
He was over as hell in his first few months going solo. He'd regularly get the biggets pop of the night. The hate came full blast when he
returned from injury and won the Royal Rumble.
This. Except it wasn't winning the Royal Rumble that turned the fans against him, it was winning the Slammy for Superstar of the Year. Which a
bunch of fans decided he couldn't possibly have done honestly.
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Paddlefoot
Rocco Rock of Jabroni
Posts 7071
Registered 1-19-2008 Location Stupid Idiot Section Member Is OnlineMood: G'bye SmokinJoe
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| posted on 4-5-2017 at 01:05 AM |
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People think the Slammy's are real?
You know, everyone says it's not supposed to make sense, like that's the whole point, dude. And I'm just saying, you know,
that's like an excuse for lazy storytelling. Just don't sell me shite and tell me it's gold, all right? I might be stoned, but
I'm not high. You know what I mean?
- Cassidy from Preacher, commenting on The Big Lebowski and/or professional wrestling
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Count Zero
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1994
Registered 1-29-2013 Location Canada East Member Is Offline Mood: SuperHeroInTraining
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| posted on 4-5-2017 at 06:28 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
People think the Slammy's are real?
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Dominator
Dominated by my love for Randy Orton
Posts 1684
Registered 7-5-2007 Location Florida Member Is Offline Mood: RKOFree Since 4/9/13
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| posted on 4-7-2017 at 08:07 AM |
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* Epic start to Raw. The chanting, the incessant booing, the milking by Roman, the <10-word promo. Awesome.
* Thought they really botched the Hardy entrance. Hit the music, then do the big intro.
* Cruiserweights now getting buried by beach balls.
* Here's how you do a "roster shakeup" and do it right. All champions are protected unless both GM's agree to a straight-up swap, i.e.
tag champs for tag champs. Otherwise, GM's get to select up to 15 other performers to draft over to their show. Each GM also gets 5 Vetoes.
So if Angle picks Cena for Raw, Bryan can use a Veto to keep Cena, unless he's already used all 5 vetoes. Lots of opportunity for strategy and
shenanigans and "you didn't believe in me" groundwork for future plot thickenings.
* Interesting dynamics with Lesnar. Goldberg is owed a rematch. Owens is owed a rematch. Balor is owed a rematch. Brock wants Roman. Braun is
looming. It's times like this where I really wish WWE would listen to me and move Elimination Chamber to between WM & Summerslam.
I do NOT love RKO, you sarcastic bastards.
"There are no politics in WWE." - Stephanie McMahon
"BWAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAA!!!" - Me
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Count Zero
Man of a Thousand Holds
Posts 1994
Registered 1-29-2013 Location Canada East Member Is Offline Mood: SuperHeroInTraining
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| posted on 4-8-2017 at 07:36 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Dominator
* Here's how you do a "roster shakeup" and do it right. All champions are protected unless both GM's agree to a straight-up swap, i.e.
tag champs for tag champs. Otherwise, GM's get to select up to 15 other performers to draft over to their show. Each GM also gets 5 Vetoes.
So if Angle picks Cena for Raw, Bryan can use a Veto to keep Cena, unless he's already used all 5 vetoes. Lots of opportunity for strategy and
shenanigans and "you didn't believe in me" groundwork for future plot thickenings.
That's too much like "rules" that they
would just end up ignoring by the time the next "shakeup" (I almost typed "draft", how silly of me that would have been) rolls around. This way
they can do whatever, and say "SEE??? WE SHOOK IT UP!" and we can't say they lied/hedged about it.
"It's a WWE tradition, to do something un-right." --Paddlefoot
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Paddlefoot
Rocco Rock of Jabroni
Posts 7071
Registered 1-19-2008 Location Stupid Idiot Section Member Is OnlineMood: G'bye SmokinJoe
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| posted on 4-10-2017 at 05:35 PM |
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wrong thread sry
[Edited on 4/10/2017 by Paddlefoot]
You know, everyone says it's not supposed to make sense, like that's the whole point, dude. And I'm just saying, you know,
that's like an excuse for lazy storytelling. Just don't sell me shite and tell me it's gold, all right? I might be stoned, but
I'm not high. You know what I mean?
- Cassidy from Preacher, commenting on The Big Lebowski and/or professional wrestling
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